
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2020-12-08</date>
    <parliament.no>46</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;"></span>
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Tuesday, 8 December 2020</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Scott Ryan)</span> took the chair at 12:00, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, Implementation of the National Redress Scheme, Law Enforcement Committee, Treaties Committee</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion relating to the attendance of a minister, which has been circulated in the chamber.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to contingent notice, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me from moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter—namely, a motion to provide that a motion to require the attendance of a minister may be moved immediately and determined without amendment.</para></quote>
<para>On Thursday last week the Prime Minister told the parliament, in response to a question from Greens leader Adam Bandt, that Australia would be participating in the Climate Ambition Summit. He said, 'It will be a great opportunity to correct the mistruths that are often presented.' Yet last night, a story in <inline font-style="italic">The Guardian</inline> from Katherine Murphy and Adam Moreton saw diplomatic sources say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There had been a debate among the co-hosts, including Britain … as to whether Morrison should be approved to speak at the summit given the widespread view that Australia is a laggard on climate commitments.</para></quote>
<para>We then had a government source confirming that the final speaker list is a matter for the event hosts. It would make sense that the Australian government might not be given a speaking spot, because the criteria required three things: an increase on 2030 targets, an actual strategy to reduce net zero emissions, and new financial commitments to developing nations to manage climate risks. All the Prime Minister has done is promise not to cheat with a dodgy accounting trick, using carryover credits, and that doesn't fit the criteria. Our 2030 targets remain—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have Senator Gallagher on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Gallagher</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just referring back to some comments you made last week, my point of order is on relevance. I understand the question that is before the chair is whether or not there should be a suspension of standing orders? It appears to me that Senator Waters is debating the motion that she is seeking to move.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for saying that, Senator Gallagher. I did remind senators last week. You have been going for over a minute, Senator Waters. The matter before the chamber is to suspend standing orders, not the motion that has been circulated. Senator Waters.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President. I was just providing some context before I come to that justification. As I was saying: no finance commitments, no increase on the 2030 target and no pathway to reach any targets. We are pretty confident that Australia won't be invited to speak. But what we need to hear from the government, and this is why we're moving to suspend standing orders today, is whether the Prime Minister has misled the parliament in his response to Greens leader Adam Bandt's question about whether or not we were invited. We have been informed that the Prime Minister has received a letter specifically saying that Australia is not invited to the Climate Ambition Summit.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, I have Senator Ruston on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, you made quite a clear ruling a minute ago about the substance of the question that is before the chair. Senator Waters seems to be quite happy to completely ignore your direction, and I would ask her to be relevant to the motion.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, to her credit, did come to the issue. Senator Waters, I have traditionally allowed people to raise points of order, but from this point forward I'm going to police it from the chair. So I expect the substance of your address to be about the suspension, not about the motion that has been circulated.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is why we need to suspend standing orders: did the Prime Minister mislead the parliament? Surely that is a most serious offence by the highest office holder in this land and an urgent matter that requires debate. Has there been a genuine misunderstanding, or was it an intentional misleading of the parliament? This is exactly why we're seeking to suspend standing orders.</para>
<para>I might add that one of the elements of the suspension that we're seeking today is for the Minister representing the Prime Minister to attend the Senate at two o'clock today to make a statement to advise the Senate on whether Australia is or is not speaking at the Climate Ambition Summit and to table any correspondence. As I said, we have information that the correspondence has been sent, specifically disavowing what the Prime Minister said and saying that Australia is not invited because we're climate laggards. This is a matter that is appropriate for this chamber to be debating. We cannot have a Prime Minister misleading either house of parliament, and it's imperative that this Senate be told what the case is. That's, of course, the reason why we're seeking to suspend standing orders today, and we look forward to the minister coming along at two o'clock and explaining the Prime Minister's potential misleading of the House.</para>
<para>This is a matter of grave importance. This government has pathetic targets that are paling in comparison to other nations. We know the Bureau of Meteorology has warned us we are on track for 4.4 degrees of warming in Australia. That's the death of the reef, that's the death of agriculture, that's an awful lot of human misery and that's probably the tanking of our economy irrevocably. We know that the UK has just lifted its ambition. We know that the EU is finalising its commission to lift its ambition.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, I'm granting you some latitude. I think you need to, again, come back to the substance of the matter before the chamber, which is the suspension of standing orders.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll do that. I'm merely providing the context that the rest of the world is moving and they can see that Australia is not moving. The fact that we have been informed that there is correspondence that Australia is not invited to a climate ambition summit is absolute dynamite in and of itself. The reason for the proposed suspension today is that the Prime Minister said the opposite in the House last week in response to a direct question. He maintained that we had been invited and that we were going to speak. Well, it appears that the Prime Minister has been caught out in a lie, and that's why we want to give the Prime Minister, through his representing minister, a chance to explain that potential misunderstanding—or was it an intentional misleading of the chamber?</para>
<para>The rest of the world knows that Australia is a climate laggard. Australians want action on the climate crisis, and they know there can be a huge jobs bonanza in clean energy. They want their parliament to deal with these matters. Does it really have to take the Greens every day raising the need for climate action for anything to get done? We would love for this matter to be properly addressed today. We would like to hear an explanation from the Prime Minister. It is not okay that the Prime Minister has potentially misled the chamber and held out that Australia's got an invite when we, in fact, specifically have not been invited.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is just another example of the blatant and flagrant disregard that the Greens have for this place, for the chair and for the appropriate and established order of business, which we all respect and operate under. It's a total disregard for other members of this chamber and for the absolutely established process by which this chamber operates. We will not accept this absolute blatant attempt to disrupt the order of business in this place, and I therefore move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion be put.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:13]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>45</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S (teller)</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hughes, H</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McDonald, S</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Van, D</name>
                <name>Walsh, J</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Waters be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:17]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>44</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hughes, H</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                <name>McDonald, S</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Van, D</name>
                <name>Walsh, J</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>4</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australia's Foreign Relations (State and Territory Arrangements) (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>4</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <a href="r6595" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australia's Foreign Relations (State and Territory Arrangements) (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration of House of Representatives Message</title>
            <page.no>4</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The committee is considering message No. 301 from the House of Representatives relating to Australia's Foreign Relations (State and Territory Arrangements) (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2020.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the committee does not insist on its amendments to which the House of Representatives has disagreed.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very disappointed at the proposal for us to not insist on our amendments. It does make you wonder what the point of the Senate is. What's the point of the debate we had last week? What's the point of the amendments that were agreed in this place last week? We spent an extended period of time last week, as people will recall, debating these amendments in this place, and debating the main bill that they accompanied. I think that it was very appropriate, given the significance of the bill, for us to have spent that time debating the bill and the amendments.</para>
<para>As I said in my speeches then, we agree that, wherever foreign interference or actions that aren't in our interests are occurring, these are serious problems that need to be addressed. Where we disagree is with the approach the Liberal Party has taken. After a lot of debate, we had two amendments that got through—two amendments amongst many. It was an absolutely minimal number of amendments to this very significant bill. It is very appropriate for the Senate as a house of review to decide that there were some changes—just a tiny bit of extra checks and balances—that should be put in place on this far-reaching bill.</para>
<para>This bill is incredibly far reaching. It has been rushed through. It didn't have an exposure draft. It was basically being used as political cover when the Prime Minister was feeling very vulnerable on a very different issue with the terrible Commonwealth response to COVID in aged-care settings. It had no exposure draft. It had no regulation impact statement. The key stakeholders—including universities and local governments—raised significant concerns about the lack of consultation. We heard last week, at length, how consultation did not occur until after the bill was introduced in the House. So we made some very minor amendments to this bill. As Greens, we thought that there were a lot more changes that needed to be put in place to improve the checks and balances on the power that this bill gives to the foreign minister.</para>
<para>The bill leaves key terms undefined. It gives the foreign minister enormous discretion in overriding a very wide range of amendments, even retrospectively. There are no guidelines set out in the legislation as to what the minister needs to consider when deciding whether to intervene in an arrangement. There's no commitment to procedural fairness, which involves not being biased, giving the person or entity affected a hearing before an action is taken, and providing reasons for undertaking that action. As we noted in the debate last week, procedural fairness does not necessarily involve providing reasons if there are national security concerns. The whole argument, we were told last week, was that we couldn't have procedural fairness because it might impact on our national security, and that is a furphy.</para>
<para>Essentially, it's clear that the approach that has been taken by this government is designed to cut off all avenues of legal appeal. In doing so, it gives massively too much power to the minister. It throws away the essential checks and balances that should be there in such far-reaching legislation. And all the government can say is basically: 'Just trust us. We won't be doing it in that overarching too-powerful way. Don't worry. There will be notes. There will be frameworks. There's a task force.' But it's not in the legislation, so it's not guaranteed. It's not locked in. It is giving too much power to the minister.</para>
<para>Fundamentally, we believe that addressing foreign interference necessarily should involve working collaboratively with stakeholders around the country, including the state and territory governments, including the universities, and including local councillors and other bodies. We believe that this bill should have been developed with a very different process and it should have provided much, much stronger oversight and transparency. In that debate, only two amendments were successful in getting through the Senate, and yet we're now being asked to not insist upon one of them, which the House rejected. That amendment, requiring judicial review, is only a marginal improvement on a bad piece of legislation, but it is an important improvement and the Senate absolutely should be insisting on that amendment.</para>
<para>I want to conclude by noting that this whole piece of legislation does nothing to address an underlying and fundamental cause of potential foreign interference and influence and corruption and actions occurring that aren't in our national interest, and that's money. It does nothing towards getting money out of politics, which is what we need to do if we're going to get serious about decisions being made on their merits and not on who is holding the purse strings. We need to bring in a federal ICAC if we want to find out who is corruptly and improperly influencing whom. We need to fund universities properly if we want them to question the wisdom of entering into memorandums of understanding with foreign governments and universities. Frankly, there is so much more that this government could be doing to address these very important issues. This legislation does not do this, and not insisting on this one amendment makes a bad piece of legislation even worse.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for agreeing to deal with the message today after my absence yesterday. Can I first go to the objectives of the bill. I would make the point that I have, on behalf of the Labor Party, consistently indicated, from the day the bill was announced without notice to us and without any indication to us, that we would back the objectives of the bill. The substantive bill, the Australia's Foreign Relations (State and Territory Arrangements) Bill 2020, has actually already passed the parliament with the opposition's support. There seems to be a bit of confusion amongst the minister's colleagues about the status of the substantive bill. I think this is the first time I've seen a government actually claim one of its bills hasn't passed the parliament when it has. I do question the Morrison government's motivation for that misleading of some in the public arena in suggesting that the bill hasn't passed. The scheme has passed and the minister has the power. The question here is whether or not there should be some oversight of the minister's decisions. We think that view was reflected in the sensible substantive amendments that Labor moved and in our support of the amendment moved by Senator Patrick. The application of the AD(JR) Act to a decision under this bill would really do no more than provide a clearer pathway for organisations that wanted to review the legality of a decision by the government. It makes things clearer and simpler, and that's really it.</para>
<para>I do want to go to the point of how the government and this minister have chosen to deal with this bill. We have repeatedly offered to engage with the government in relation to this bill. To my mind—and this is what I would say to this chamber—this is one of the problems with the way in which this government seeks to handle certain issues of foreign policy. It doesn't know how to be bipartisan in the national interest. We get the announcement; we make clear our position; the minister doesn't talk to the opposition. On this legislation we invited conversations. The minister still hasn't spoken to me—not once. We provided the government with our amendments ahead of them being circulated. We provided the government again with a letter after the amendments were voted on here in the chamber saying: 'If you've got an issue, come back to us. We'd like to discuss a way through.' I got a text from the minister and some staff consultation which suggested it was simply a matter of principle. Can I just say that I think a minister in this portfolio ought to have the political maturity to engage the other party of government when it comes to these sorts of pieces of legislation. I register my disappointment that the minister consistently refused to do so. I find it mystifying, frankly.</para>
<para>I understand that Senator Lambie is changing her position. Senator Lambie is always very upfront with me. I knew we had her last time and now I know we don't have her, so thank you to her. She's not one of those in this place about whom you die wondering. I appreciate her clarity with me around that.</para>
<para>I think it's pretty clear the Senate won't be insisting on this. Labor will continue to insist on the amendment, given what we've previously indicated and the failure by government, really, to offer any substantial reason as to why this is such a dreadful proposition to have in the application of the act. So we will continue to support the amendment that Senator Patrick moved, which was identical to an opposition amendment, to ensure the bill was not excluded.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to make a very short contribution to make sure the Senate understands that the amendment that was passed last time does not seek to enable judicial review on the merits of the minister's decision, not as to whether or not he or she has made an erroneous decision on the balance of national security. It's about the housekeeping associated with any decisions. The grounds for seeking review under the Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act include 'that procedures that were required by law to be observed in connection with the making of the decision were not observed' and 'that the person who purported to make the decision did not have jurisdiction to make the decision'. Another ground might be 'that the making of the decision was an improper exercise of the power conferred by the enactment in pursuance of which it was purported to be made'. These are the sorts of things that this amendment seeks to ensure. It doesn't seek to question the minister's judgement on the balance of national security. It simply seeks to ask: When the decision was made, were all the right things done? Was it the right person? Did they have at least some evidence before them, as opposed to making a decision without evidence? That's all this amendment seeks to do. It's very reasonable, and I will also join with the Labor Party in insisting on the amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just briefly, for the record, let me note—because I don't think it was clear for the vast majority of Senator Rice's speech—that two amendments were passed through the Senate and, when the bill was considered in the House of Representatives, one of those was accepted and continues as part of the bill; the other was not.</para>
<para>The amendment which was accepted was for the minister to make an annual report to the Senate on the implementation of the bill and for that matter to be referred to the Senate Foreign Affairs Defence and Trade Legislation Committee by Senate resolution of continuing effect. So the procedures of that committee to examine the implementation of the Australia's foreign relations bill and the decisions made by the minister will continue; that amendment was clearly accepted. We have not accepted the amendment in relation to the application of the Administrative Decisions (Judicial Review) Act for the many reasons I cited last week, and I want to thank Senator Patrick particularly for his engagement on this matter.</para>
<para>In relation to consultations, I would advise the chamber once again that the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade conducted over 60 consultations across state, territory and local governments and universities as well. The bill does include a number of important transparency, scrutiny and accountability provisions. For the first time, there will be a register of all such arrangements. The decisions that are made by the foreign minister will be included on that register. There is an ability to claim judicial review of the decisions of the foreign minister. As I've said, there's now an annual report to parliament—an opposition amendment which was agreed by the government in the House of Representatives. The rules that the foreign minister makes are disallowable by the parliament. We incorporated, by our own amendment in the House of Representatives, a review of the scheme after three years.</para>
<para>I would note, as I said to the chamber in committee last week, that the factors in section 51 that are to be taken into account form a clear and open part of the minister's consideration. The scheme contemplates—and, it could be argued, in fact mandates—increased consultation with the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade on its expertise on foreign policy and foreign relations. There is also the availability of compensation for acquisition otherwise than on just terms.</para>
<para>Underneath all of that, as the foundations of the bill, I would remind the committee that the scope of the bill and the level of the obligations for the entities covered by the bill are carefully calibrated for the risk that may attach to foreign arrangements that they may make. But also remember the point we have made repeatedly that, of course, these arrangements are often beneficial and welcome and in the vast majority of cases will continue unaffected. It is important, I believe, to remember that this bill proposes a framework that carefully balances accountability, timeliness of decisions, administrative burdens and statutory frameworks.</para>
<para>As I said earlier, the government believes that the committee should not insist on its amendments to which the House of Representatives has disagreed.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: The question is that the committee does not insist on its amendments to which the House of Representatives has disagreed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:40]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Resolution reported; report adopted.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>7</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>7</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Ruston, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the provisions of paragraphs (5) to (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the following bills, allowing them to be considered during this period of sittings:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Aged Care Amendment (Aged Care Recipient Classification) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Aviation Legislation Amendment (Liability and Insurance) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Civil Aviation (Unmanned Aircraft Levy) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Civil Aviation Amendment (Unmanned Aircraft Levy Collection and Payment) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Corporations Amendment (Corporate Insolvency Reforms) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Excise Levies Legislation Amendment (Sheep and Lamb) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Customs Charges and Levies Legislation Amendment (Sheep and Lamb) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Export Market Development Grants Legislation Amendment Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Financial Sector Reform (Hayne Royal Commission Response) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Corporations (Fees) Amendment (Hayne Royal Commission Response) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Investment Reform (Protecting Australia's National Security) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Fees Imposition Amendment Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Health Insurance Amendment (Compliance Administration) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Immigration (Education) Amendment (Expanding Access to English Tuition) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Amendment (Technical Amendments) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Territories Legislation Amendment Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Bankruptcy (Estate Charges) Amendment (Norfolk Island) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treasury Laws Amendment (2020 Measures No. 5) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treasury Laws Amendment (2020 Measures No. 6) Bill 2020.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak briefly on this motion. I note that the government is seeking to exempt 20 bills from the cut-off, and the opposition is seeking to assist the government with what appears to be a mismanagement of its program, largely, so that we've got this last minute rush of bills coming before the chamber. I think you'll find our preparedness to cooperate is quite reasonable.</para>
<para>There is one bill on that list of 20 bills, the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020, that the opposition does not support, and I'll go to the reasons why, because they are linked to this motion that the government has put. We do not believe this is in any way a good bill. We have opposed it in every forum possible. By having it as part of this list, we are not able to support it because, by doing so, we would be complicit in bringing on this bill in this chamber, where we know the government is desperate to get it passed and is placing pressure on the crossbench to support it. There is absolutely no reason why this bill needs to be rushed through. The government has another bill that has been in this place for 12 months—should it wish to extend the trial sites in the areas where the cashless debit card is currently operating—so we don't accept the government's view that it must be dealt with this week. There is another alternative for the government, one that is quite reasonable and wouldn't require this procedural motion to get it through.</para>
<para>I'll just make a couple of points about why we are so opposed to this. Firstly, in the 13 years since the Howard government's intervention in the Northern Territory, there is no evidence that compulsory broad-based income management works. Secondly, the minister decided to make the cashless debit card trial permanent before reading the independent review by Adelaide university that you commissioned, Minister Ruston, at great cost to the taxpayer: $2½ million. You made the decision before that. You've not published the Adelaide university study you commissioned, which makes us suspicious about what that report has actually found and why the government is insisting on dealing with this bill this week without the benefit of that information. Thirdly, the proposal is racially discriminatory, as has been widely understood through the various forums where this has been investigated. Approximately 68 per cent of the people impacted by this bill are First Nations Australians. The government has failed to adequately consult affected communities, especially First Nations communities. We are very concerned about this. It's a very heavy handed way of doing what has been passed off as a budget decision but will have such significant consequences for so many people.</para>
<para>The bill that the government is seeking to exempt is substantially the same as one that is already on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> which would allow the continuation of the trial. The second reading debate on that bill was adjourned on 2 December 2019. Given that that bill has, effectively, sat on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> for 12 months without being debated by the government, we see absolutely no reason why this bill needs to be rushed through the Senate this week and exempted from the usual procedural processes that would allow senators to properly review and scrutinise the legislation before it's, potentially, passed into law. We don't believe the motives of the government are fair. We think this is all about putting pressure on the crossbench. We do believe that the Adelaide university report should be released before the Senate is required to make such a massive decision as making the cashless debit card—which significantly affects First Nations communities—mandatory across those trial sites and into the Northern Territory.</para>
<para>I'll leave my comments there because I know that many of my colleagues will speak, should we not be successful with this motion and should we be in a position where this bill actually gets through. But I would urge those on the crossbench to consider supporting us when we ask that the question be separated so that we vote separately on that bill from the other 19 that we are prepared to exempt from the cut-off. There are many thousands of people around this country who rely on the Senate to do the right thing on this, and the right thing is to not allow this to be swept through in a last-minute rush before Christmas just because this government has taken a budget decision. Rather, it should allow the proper processes and the full evaluation of the trial sites to be provided to this chamber to consider before we're asked to cast our votes on it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens are also asking that the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020 be voted on separately because we certainly will not be supporting this being rushed through this place. This is a continuation of a punitive, discriminatory approach on income management which was first foisted onto the Northern Territory and, to make matters worse, is a continuation of the intervention in 2007 through converting the BasicsCard to the cashless debit card and moving people onto the cashless debit card. It also entrenches the four so-called trial sites. Those of us that have opposed this from the beginning pointed out, when the government moved to establish these trials in the first place, that they were never intended as trials. I'm glad that senators on the opposition benches have finally realised that these were never meant to be trials—that these were always meant to be permanent—and are now opposing them.</para>
<para>We had less than half a day to consider this legislation that impacts on so many people in this country. We simply did not have time, in the short time that was made available for the inquiry, to hold a broader hearing. This has implications for thousands and thousands of Australians on the BasicsCard in the Northern Territory and in Cape York, and for those that are on the cashless welfare-debit card in the so-called trial sites around this country. This is about continuing this government's punitive, discriminatory approach to those that are on income support.</para>
<para>There's no evidence that the card works. There wasn't evidence, I might add, in the first five years after the intervention, when it was extended, and there's no evidence now. There was evidence that came out, very clearly, in fact, in 2014 that showed it met none of its objectives in the Northern Territory. That's the government's evidence. None of the other so-called evaluations have proved their point, because they are flawed. The government obviously think that the next evaluation they've paid for isn't going to demonstrate that it works. In fact the cat was let out of the bag yesterday in <inline font-style="italic">The Guardian</inline>, where it was shown that there is little support for extending the cashless debit card in the Goldfields. That snippet that we saw yesterday in <inline font-style="italic">The Guardian</inline> about the Goldfields trial showed that there isn't the support to continue the card as it operates now.</para>
<para>So it's very clear why the government isn't releasing the evaluation. This isn't based on evidence, on what works; it's based on ideology, pure and simple, which seeks to control the way people spend their money, because the government think they have the right to control people's income support. Controlling the way that people use their money does not achieve the objectives, because there are workarounds and all sorts of things. The card has not reduced, and it has not dealt with the underlying causes of, drug and alcohol addiction, which the government claim they are addressing. This is a flawed approach.</para>
<para>The government doesn't have evidence that the card works. It wants to rush the legislation through and make the card permanent. There are other people on those benches across from us who actually want to roll this out across the country. This is just a stepping stone to try and roll out the cashless debit card across the country. We know what the agenda is and we will vote against this card every single time, including when the government tries to exempt this punitive, discriminatory card from the cut-off and rush it through this place.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The motion put up by Senator Ruston basically allows the bills within to be considered during this period of sittings. We're coming to the end of the year and it is very important that some of these bills get passed. The Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020 needs to be passed. If it is not, the card will come to an end on 1 January. That is exactly the intention of the Greens, who have opposed it constantly over a period of time. The Labor Party states that this is about balancing the budget. That's got nothing to do with it.</para>
<para>I actually went to the hearing in Kalgoorlie. There were only a handful of senators there. I don't know how many senators have actually been to hear the debate that has gone on with regard to the cashless debit card. The government didn't go out there and say, 'We're actually going to put this cashless debit card'—</para>
<para class="italic">Honourable senators interjecting —</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, please resume your seat. With all due respect, Senator Siewert was heard in silence. I would ask her colleagues to show the same courtesy to other speakers, in what is a procedural debate to determine whether there will be a debate on these bills over the remaining course of this week.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Mr President. It might be very hard for them, because that's their character and that's their nature. Anyway, the fact is that the government didn't just go out there and say, 'We're going to put this cashless debit card in the Kimberley, in Kalgoorlie, in Hervey Bay, in Bundaberg or in Ceduna, for that matter.' These communities came to the government asking for this to be put into those communities.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Chisholm interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Chisholm!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Having a meeting with these communities, we're talking about—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Chisholm interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Chisholm!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We spoke to—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Chisholm interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Chisholm, count to 10, quietly.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Chisholm interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Chisholm, this place will have a very messy last few days if people completely ignore the chair, no matter who's in it. There is an opportunity to debate this later on. This is a procedural debate to determine whether there will be an opportunity to debate it later on. Can it please be conducted with courtesy.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The whole fact is that we're having allegations thrown around this chamber, and most people have not had the opportunity to go to hear what the communities were saying. What I offer to this debate is important. We actually heard from the reports from the police association that domestic violence was on the decline, that even alcohol abuse was on the decline and that it has assisted communities. I haven't got the numbers; I have asked for the figures. But people have asked to opt into the cashless debit card. So they actually see the benefits of it.</para>
<para>You also have to understand that, in these communities, the Aboriginal culture is that you've got family members and others in the community who are actually going and forcing them to take money out of their account, so they don't have money to actually—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Hanson. I called Senator Waters to order earlier—I'm referring to it, not pointing at you, Senator Waters. This is a procedural motion about whether bills will be dealt with this week. We should not be debating the substance of the bills as much as whether or not they should be exempt from the Senate's cut-off order. If it's adopted, there will be an opportunity to debate the bill. So I just ask all senators to keep in mind that this is not the time for substantive debate on these bills.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If I was doing that, it was in response to Senator Siewert and her comments with regard to this. It is so important to these communities that we continue with the cashless debit card. There is a response in this chamber: 'We know what it's all about. What they intend to do is roll it out to the rest of the country.' That is not the case at all. It will not be going into any other communities. It will be taken to the next election, if they intend to do that. So what others are saying about it is not the truth.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You, the Greens, have no evidence of it whatsoever. I'm sick of the allegations being thrown around this chamber. It's also said that it's going to tie in pensioners and those who are on invalid pensions. That's not the case at all. It is people in the working-age group who are tied up in this, especially those in Hervey Bay and Bundaberg who are 35 years old and under.</para>
<para>It is so important. A lot of people have actually got off the alcohol and stopped wasting money on that. There are reports that children are now getting fed. The mothers can buy the food. They still have 20 per cent of their money in cash to spend how they wish to spend it. Sometimes there's such a thing as tough love. You need people to take responsibility. If you are quite happy with people going to spend their money on alcohol and become inebriated to the point that they have domestic violence—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm asking for you to reflect on the imputation made by Senator Hanson just then, in relation to suggesting that others in this chamber want people to go and spend all their money on alcohol and be inebriated.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I didn't catch that. I will reflect on the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> or the video and come back to the chamber or address it to senators as appropriate.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Touchy! So, anyway—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have every right in this chamber to make points of order, and I would ask Senator Hanson, through you, Chair: if she wants to stand by what she said, she can say it again and you can hear it and you can make a decision. But just throwing around that people's points of order make them 'touchy'—there will be a lot more of it.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, I said before I don't think anyone in the chamber can claim they're entirely innocent, whether it be disorderly behaviour, whether it be interjections or not. I remind senators that one of the ways of maintaining decorum for a debate like this is to stick to the motion, which is on whether or not bills should be exempt from the cut-off order, rather than to address substantive issues. I gave some latitude to Senator Siewert to do that. Senator Hanson, I have given you the same amount of latitude, and I urge you, as I did to Senator Waters earlier this morning, to come to address the procedural motion before the chair. These other matters can be left to debate if the Senate so determines it.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Some of us in this chamber have got thick skin and others don't. But, anyway, that comes with age and wisdom and knowledge. The fact is that what I am saying here is it's very important that we deal with this motion and that we deal with the cashless debit card in the chamber. It is going to impact on a lot of people, so I am calling on the senators here: you may have your disagreements with us and say that it's against human rights, which the Greens have said all along, and that we're denying people their rights, but the people are on this welfare payment purely because of the grace of the taxpayers of this nation, who have given them the ability to actually access money. We, as people, must also understand that a lot of people are tied up on drug addiction, alcohol and gambling. That is a big problem here as well. If it is helping these people, if it is saving just a few lives in these communities, surely that's got to be taken into consideration.</para>
<para>I know the Labor Party are not going to support this, because that's their voter base: 'How dare you deny the people control of how their money is spent?' We talk in this chamber about the sexual abuse of children. That comes from people who are inebriated—it may be alcohol; it may be drugs. We actually see the decline in domestic violence. Why aren't you prepared to actually say that if it leads to this—spending the money where they do spend it wrongly—that is impacting on their daily lives? Why can't you make the decisions based on what is right for these communities? The people have been crying out for it. When you have meetings with these people, they are crying out for it. These communities came to the government and put their own hands up for it. They wanted this card. If you don't pass this with the cashless debit card, it's going to go back to the BasicsCard up in the cape, so this is very important. At least give them a further trial.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Faruqi on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Faruqi</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My point of order is about relevance to the debate. Senator Hanson-Young is—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Steele-John</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Faruqi</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Sarah. My deepest apologies to Senator Hanson-Young.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Faruqi</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson is definitely straying into the substance of the bill and not debating the motion in front of us, so I would request that you call her to order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, I did give Senator Siewert quite a bit of latitude on addressing this. Senator Hanson, I'll ask you now, because I've given you a similar amount of latitude, to come to the procedural matter.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's exactly where I was heading, encouraging the members to actually vote for this and allow this to be dealt with this week in the chamber. I've explained my reasons why it needs to be dealt with, so I call on the senators, even those on the crossbench who may be leaning against voting for this—and I know that Senator Patrick went up to Ceduna over the weekend to see for himself and used the card himself. So I'm calling on those crossbench senators: we need to use common sense and pass this legislation before the parliament is finished.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to support my colleague Senator Gallagher in that this Senate should not proceed with the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020 as part of the procedural motion that is before the chair. I know from my conversations with the crossbenchers—and in particular with Senator Patrick, who has said this not only to me personally but also publicly—that they are very torn by this piece of legislation. Senator Patrick has provided over 50 questions for the government to answer, and my understanding is that they have not been answered. There are thousands and thousands of families across the Northern Territory who are going to be greatly impacted by this piece of legislation. It is incumbent on the senators in this Senate, who are going to rule on the lives of the people of the Northern Territory in particular, to understand what it is they're talking about.</para>
<para>I appeal to the crossbenchers and I thank them—Senator Patrick and Senator Lambie—for coming to the Northern Territory, listening to the people of the Northern Territory and recognising that when the BasicsCard came in, in 2007, people didn't ask for the BasicsCard, just like they're not asking for the cashless debit card. The Senate must be acutely aware of these facts. I urge our crossbenchers in particular not to allow this procedural motion to go ahead in including this particular bill.</para>
<para>There is a great deal of work that still needs to be done. There is no need to rush through something that the government has had on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> for 12 months in relation to those four trial sites. It is not the fault of this Senate that the government has been unable to get its act together. It is not the fault of this Senate that the government has failed to evaluate those four trial sites. It is not the fault of the Senate that the government has refused to allow us to see the University of Adelaide report, which it spent $2.5 million on, to evaluate those four trial sites in order for the Senate to review, examine and investigate—as we should do in the Australian parliament when we are making decisions about people's lives. The government has failed to do that. It has done a sloppy and inefficient job. It has degraded the lives of the people who have lived on this card for the last four years. Now you want to add thousands more from the Northern Territory to it. I urge this Senate, I urge the crossbenchers: do not support this motion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<para>That the question be now put.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the question be now put.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:11]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>McDonald, S</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Green, N</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Walsh, J</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I understand it, the only bill in this motion I've been asked to treat differently is the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020. That's the only one. I will put the motion without that bill, so with all the other legislation listed, and then separately I'll put the question on the contentious bill. The question is that the motion moved by the minister but without the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020 be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020 be included with the other bills exempt from the cut-off order.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:15]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>McDonald, S</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Green, N</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                <name>Walsh, J</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>13</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Recycling and Waste Reduction Bill 2020, Recycling and Waste Reduction (Consequential and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2020, Recycling and Waste Reduction Charges (General) Bill 2020, Recycling and Waste Reduction Charges (Customs) Bill 2020, Recycling and Waste Reduction Charges (Excise) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>13</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <p>
              <a href="r6573" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Recycling and Waste Reduction Bill 2020</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6574" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Recycling and Waste Reduction (Consequential and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2020</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6572" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Recycling and Waste Reduction Charges (General) Bill 2020</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6571" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Recycling and Waste Reduction Charges (Customs) Bill 2020</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6575" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Recycling and Waste Reduction Charges (Excise) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>13</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I reiterate that I moved my amendment on sheet 1071 last night. I will speak to it very briefly and concisely. A priority products list is in the legislation; it already exists. It gives a minister the ability to put on notice any waste stream under a product stewardship scheme by putting the waste stream on the product priority list. That gives that waste stream's association members 12 months to get their act together and, at the end of that 12 months, it gives the minister the discretion to come into parliament and name and shame businesses that are deliberately free-riding and not pulling their weight. This amendment isn't doing anything new except to take plastic packaging, which we know is going to be under a voluntary product stewardship scheme if APCO and the government are true to their word, and simply put it immediately onto the product priority list.</para>
<para>Australians are bitterly disappointed that last night the Senate didn't support a mandated product stewardship scheme that gave the packaging industry essentially five years to get their act together and meet their voluntary targets. This is a halfway house; it's not as strong as the Greens, Labor and other people in this chamber would have liked to see, but it at least gives the Australian people and the recycling industry some certainty that plastic packaging is going to fall under the scope of this legislation. At the moment, plastic packaging falls under the NEPM; it's not covered in this bill. We can't even talk about tackling marine plastic or building a better recycling industry in Australia and creating jobs, giving the recycling industry certainty, unless we give them something.</para>
<para>I implore senators to support this amendment. One Nation totally disgraced themselves yesterday. They have some kind of chance here to redress that and at least give the recycling industry in Australia and the Australian people something. I commend this amendment to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I clarify which amendment we are dealing with? I thought Senator Whish-Wilson was speaking about the matters contemplated on sheet 1043. My understanding of the amendment on sheet 1071 is that it goes to consultation. I'm just clarifying, Senator Whish-Wilson, where we are up to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm advised by the clerk that we are actually considering sheet 1071. I'll call you, Senator Whish-Wilson, if you need to say anything to make this clear to the chamber.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is correct: it is the amendment on sheet 1071 and it does go to consultation. Currently, the minister 'may consult' with persons or organisations in relation to aspects of the bill—industry groups, consumer groups. We've moved as an amendment to the section that the minister 'must consult' with one or more persons, rather than 'may'. Sorry, I thought I'd clarified that last night. But we are about to vote on the amendment on sheet 1071.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Thank you, Senator Whish-Wilson, for the clarification.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will indicate Labor's voting position on this. We do support this amendment. Waste management is a very complex issue. It affects consumers, industry and the environment, and government policymaking correspondently should be engaging with all of those sectors of our society and economy. We were very pleased to be able to secure amendments in the other place that required that the minister consult with states and territories and with the government's new Product Stewardship Centre of Excellence, as key stakeholders. We're happy to support the extension of this requirement to the other groups that are listed in this amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government doesn't support the amendment. We did move and cooperate with the opposition, as referenced by Senator McAllister, in the House to extend and strengthen consultation requirements in relation to the minister's priority list. Obviously, that is not an exhaustive outcome in terms of who could be consulted—and no doubt would be consulted, we believe—beyond those specified. It's appropriate to keep flexibility there. For example, in the case of local governments it may be that a large number need consulting on some measures, a smaller number on other measures, and ministers of the day ought to have the flexibility to get the best possible policy outcomes through consultation.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: The question is that the amendment on sheet 1071, moved by Senator Whish-Wilson, be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [13:29]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br />Bills agreed to.<br />Bills reported without amendments; report adopted.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>15</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a third time.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would just like to say a few words and acknowledge a few people before we go to the final vote. Obviously, the Greens will be voting for the bill as it is, but we are bitterly disappointed, as I know many other Australians are. This has been a missed opportunity to get significant amendments in legislation—to act on plastic pollution, one of the biggest environmental challenges we face on the planet—and also to give the recycling industry the certainty they need to get us out of this waste crisis we find ourselves in—invest in infrastructure, upgrading their processes and creating Australians jobs.</para>
<para>To all those people who have campaigned really hard over many years, especially in recent months, to convince senators to support these strong amendments that we have debated in the Senate in the last 24 hours, I would like to say thank you. I would like to say to you also that we have come a long way on this debate. Just a few years ago it wasn't even being discussed in parliament. We haven't had any legislation on this in the Senate for nearly 10 years. We've had a number of big Senate inquiries and we've seen the issue build and build in the Australian public's consciousness. It is now an issue of significant public importance. We won't be giving up. We have come a long way.</para>
<para>Last night, we debated a key amendment to mandate product stewardship schemes for the packaging industry—telling some of the biggest producers of plastic packaging on the planet here in Australia that by 2025 their voluntary targets need to be met or there will be consequences. We were one vote away from holding the big packaging industry to account, and no-one has done that for 25 years. While we were one vote away, we are one step closer to actually getting some meaningful change and some meaningful action.</para>
<para>I'd also like to say to those people, the many of them who are listening today, a lot of things have happened because of the work this Senate has done. This Senate has led the world in looking at marine plastic pollution, with the first parliamentary inquiry. The environment committee conducted an extensive and exhaustive inquiry into the waste crisis and made a number of very substantial recommendations. If we hadn't been going through these processes—raising and putting these issues on the table—politically speaking, the government never would have acted. Our Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, never would have gone to the United Nations saying Australia was going to lead on plastic pollution. Unfortunately, today, I don't think we can say with any confidence that our Prime Minister has led on plastic pollution, because this bill has passed—a bill that completely excludes plastic packaging, the exact waste stream that is causing the problem. But have no fear, Australia; we will continue to push and we will get results.</para>
<para>One question that I am asked consistently, including last night and this morning, is: why won't this government put in place two simple bits of legislation that ban the most problematic plastics we find in our ocean? When the states are already doing it and everyone is calling for harmonisation and leadership, why won't the government do that? Why won't they take the voluntary targets and just put them into law? It is simple, especially when the industry say they will meet the targets. It won't cost them any extra. Why won't the government do that? That is a question we will continue to ask in this place.</para>
<para>My personal view is, yes, there is some small-government ideology on the other side, perhaps a lot of small-government ideology, and there are people fundamentally opposed to regulation. The Greens have a very distinct difference of opinion. I believe government has a strong role to play in our lives, particularly around an environmental issue that needs government intervention. But I also think a big part of the problem is the packaging industry are big donors to the Liberal Party. Visy has donated $1.8 million to the Liberal Party since they have been in government. Visy is arguably the biggest packaging company on the planet. Our Prime Minister stopped to visit Visy on his way to the United Nations, ironically, to talk about the action he was going to take on plastic pollution, which we haven't done today. But that shows you how powerful these big donors can be in our democratic processes here.</para>
<para>Even the recycling industry, which employs 60,000 people, supported these amendments. I would like to give a shout-out to Gayle Sloan from the waste management association of Australia for the evidence she has given at Senate committee inquiries. She has been quite happy to talk to the media and to stakeholders to let them know the views of her association, and of course there is Rose Reid from the National Waste and Recycling Industry Council. They have both been very vocal about their 60,000 members who wanted to see these amendments. But so powerful are the packaging industry, the Food and Grocery Council and the others that have opposed the mandatory schemes that ultimately we failed by one vote to get this reform through. But, as even Senator Birmingham has acknowledged, this is definitely not the end of the road. The government has a number of plans they will bring in. We will continue to scrutinise those. We will definitely not step back. We will be keeping a very close eye on this and making sure that we do get single-use plastics banned around the country and that we absolutely do everything we can as a parliament to make sure that these voluntary targets move to 100 per cent recyclable and compostable. Every time you walk into the supermarket, senators, look around you. When you go this afternoon to buy some milk, have a look at all that packaging. By 2025, that has to be 100 per cent recyclable or compostable, according to the voluntary targets that have been set by the industry, which—I will remind you one last time—they say they are going to meet. Thirty per cent of all that packaging needs to be made from recycled material, preferably from Australia. That means Australian jobs, and that gives the recycling industry the confidence they need.</para>
<para>To finish, I'd really like to thank some key people who have helped to campaign to get some reform in this area and no doubt will continue to campaign. Many of them have been very close to this for a number of years. I would like to thank the Boomerang Alliance, in particular Robbie Kellman in Tasmania, and Toby Hutcheon and Geoff Angel from Sydney. Boomerang Alliance is an alliance of 46 different environment groups around the country. They played a pivotal role in getting container deposit schemes up in New South Wales and other places. They're really, really good people. They know this better than anyone, and I know how disappointed they're going to be when the third reading is voted on without key amendments.</para>
<para>I'd like also to give a particular shout-out to WWF Australia, in particular to Katinka Day, who has been hitting the phones very hard. They have nearly two million people on their email list. They've been calling for these amendments to be supported. I know many senators have received those emails and probably some very nice, hopefully personable, phone calls to their office to encourage them to do the right thing. In Greenpeace: Jamie Hanson, thank you. And speaking of Hansens, I acknowledge Jeff Hansen from Sea Shepherd and of course his lovely wife Marina Hansen, who has appeared at two Senate inquiries to give evidence on why Sea Shepherd have a marine debris program and what they're doing around marine plastics. I would also like to cover Sea Shepherd Tasmania, particularly Michael Broome, Erin Harris and Sarah Briggs, who do a fantastic job and have been very active in trying to get support for these amendments. The Humane Society International: thank you for your support. Australian Marine Conservation Society have been trying to get their members active to call on senators to support these amendments as well. They also have hundreds of thousands of Australians on their contact list who they’ve been talking to. I thank in particular Shane Hooker, who has been leading that for them.</para>
<para>I'd like to talk about Surfrider Foundation. Interestingly, they were here yesterday to get the government to oppose PEP 11 drilling off Newcastle and Sydney. I was on the board of Surfrider Foundation many moons ago, before I came into politics. They have been campaigning on marine plastics since 2005, and that's where I stared. With their Rise Above Plastics campaign in 2006 they were the first environment group around the world to campaign on marine plastics. Because surfers see it—they see it in the water; they could see what was happening in their beach clean-ups—they knew over 20 years ago that this was a massive environmental problem. I know they're going to be bitterly disappointed today to see that, at the first chance in a decade to do something about it in this place, we have squibbed that responsibility. I thank in particular Susie Crick, who I think has appeared at at least five Senate inquiries to talk about why that organisation wants real action, and Brendan Donohoe.</para>
<para>I'd also like to acknowledge Patagonia, Plastic Free July and Plastic Free Launceston, particularly Trish Haeusler, and give a real shout-out to the Peloton Against Plastic guys, who've been very active on social media. They cycled across the Vietnam, along the Mekong River, talking to Vietnamese businesses. The world's great rivers produce most of our marine plastics. Most of what we find on Australian beaches is from Australian sources, but most of the world's great rivers produce the bulk of plastics. They spent six months cycling their bikes, talking to Vietnamese business people and citizens about what they can do to replace plastics, and they're continuing that work. Like a lot of good people, they're not giving up. I give a particular shout-out to Paul Hellier and Jamie Lepre: you are absolute legends. Thank you for everything you've done. Kate Nelson, Plastic Free Mermaid, has been an absolute legend. She is well known around the world for her advocacy on living without any plastic for decades. She has been an absolute gem with getting people motivated to call their local senators and take some action here.</para>
<para>It's unusual to talk about staff in this place, but Fraser Brindley used to work for me and used to work in the waste space for the EPA in Victoria. I know his heart is in this, and he did a significant amount of work on the private member's bill that these amendments were based on and in working with stakeholders. I would like to thank Fraser for everything he's done over many years.</para>
<para>It might surprise some people, because she's not here, that I'd also like to acknowledge Senator Lee Rhiannon, who came to me in 2014 and said: 'I think we really need a big Senate inquiry into marine plastic. Why isn't the Senate looking at this issue and what we can do?' Even then, we knew that the government, under EPBC law, had listed marine debris as a threatening process. We all knew back then it was killing marine life; in fact, it was a weapon of mass destruction to marine life. Yet no-one was looking at what the government was actually doing to act on the problem. So I'd like to thank Lee for that quiet moment when she sat down with me and suggested the Senate inquiry, because that's really where things kicked off.</para>
<para>I'll finish by saying this is not the end of the road. The government have come a long way. They have a lot further to go. I understand why people are cynical. The packaging industry have never met any of the targets or kept any of the promises they've made over 30 years in this country. I sincerely hope that is going to change in the years to come. The Greens will continue to work constructively with all political parties, and with anyone, to help solve this problem.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <a href="r6608" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>17</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>18</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an addendum to the explanatory memorandum relating to the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Today I rise to speak on a Bill that continues our commitment to improve our welfare system and deliver a real difference to the lives of all Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill, the Social Security (Administration) Amendments (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020, establishes the Cashless Debit Card as an ongoing program in existing sites and provides for the transition of Income Management participants across the Northern Territory and Cape York region to the Cashless Debit Card.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government thanks the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee for its report on the Bill. The committee published the report on 17 November 2020, and recommended that the Bill be passed. The Government acknowledges the feedback and recommendation provided by the Committee, as well as the dissenting reports published by the Australian Labor Party and the Australian Greens.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The report identified that the Cashless Debit Card program is delivering significant benefits for the communities where it currently operates. The program has the objective of reducing the amount of welfare available to be spent on alcohol, gambling and drugs, helping welfare recipients with their budgeting strategies and encouraging socially responsible behaviour.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The program is showing positive results.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Card participants were spending more of their welfare payments on essential items for themselves and their families, such as food, bills, clothes, household goods and fuel. This is confirmed by our card usage data that shows that spending at supermarkets is up almost 35 per cent and spending on household goods is up over 160 per cent. Over the life of the program, over $125 million has been spent at businesses that sell groceries and food, that could not be spent on restricted items like alcohol, drugs and gambling products.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Evaluations of the Cashless Debit Card show the program is working. The first independent evaluation released in late 2017 states that the card has shown 'considerable positive impact' in the initial trial sites, including:</para></quote>
<list>41 per cent of participants surveyed who drank alcohol reported drinking less frequently;</list>
<list>48 per cent of participants surveyed who used drugs reported using drugs less frequently; and</list>
<list>48 per cent of those who gambled before the trial reported gambling less often.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will provide certainty for welfare recipients currently on the Cashless Debit Card, and see over 25,000 additional welfare recipients in the Northern Territory and Cape York region transition from Income Management to the Cashless Debit Card. Currently, these participants hold a BasicsCard, a card which directs welfare expenditure towards priority needs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government recognises that the BasicsCard, while effective, can restrict an individual's ability of choice. Currently, the BasicsCard only works in stores that have signed a merchant agreement with Services Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In comparison, the Cashless Debit Card works everywhere except when individuals try to purchase alcohol, gambling products, some gift cards and to withdraw cash. The Cashless Debit Card provides Income Management participants with greater consumer choice and autonomy while reducing red tape for businesses. For example, its provides interest on participants' funds, gives access to new technologies such as contactless payments, provides greater choice where participants can shop and enables participants to know when and how their money is being used just like you and I do every day with our bank cards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has trialled both Income Management, through the BasicsCard, and the Cashless Debit Card in different communities to improve financial management and reduce social harm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While the Government recognises the effectiveness the BasicsCard has had on the communities in which it has operated, it is time to provide Income Management participants in the Northern Territory and Cape York region with the opportunities that the Cashless Debit Card brings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">You just have to look at the positive impacts the Cashless Debit Card has had across the current four program areas, from a reduction in drug and alcohol related presentation in the emergency wards and less police call-outs late at night through to a general feeling of improved safety on the streets of these towns.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Business leaders, local Indigenous leaders, elected members, police and from health officials and there is a consistent message—'The card must stay.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill gives these four communities, and the new regions of the Northern Territory and Cape York, further confidence about the Government's commitment to reducing the devastating effects of alcohol, drugs and gambling in these communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We must continue to support communities that put their hand up and drive positive change and improved outcomes for vulnerable individuals within those communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the Bill.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DODSON</name>
    <name.id>SR5</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Continuation of Cashless Welfare) Bill 2020, and I move the amendment on sheet 1166 circulated in my name:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Omit all words after "That", substitute: ", the bill be withdrawn and the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) thirteen years after the Howard Government's so-called Intervention in the Northern Territory, there is no evidence that compulsory, broad-based income management works,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Minister decided to make the Cashless Debit Card trial permanent before reading the independent review by the University of Adelaide, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) this proposal is racially discriminatory, as approximately 68 per cent of the people impacted are First Nations Australians; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) not roll out the Cashless Debit Card nationally, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) invest in evidence-based policies, job creation and services, rather than ideological policies like the Cashless Debit Card".</para></quote>
<para>Labor opposes this bill, and its opposition is not based on ideology—the sort of warped ideology which drives this government. No, our opposition is based on evidence, and the overwhelming evidence is that the cashless welfare card, and income management generally, does not work. Yet, in the face of that evidence, the government remains determined to pursue the cashless debit card because it's determined to punish the poor and the marginalised in society. This is get-back: 'Get back to where you belong.' This is get-back to them. This is not snapback or comeback; it's, 'Get back to where you belong because you have no value and no worth in our society.' That's the message it sends.</para>
<para>The government is even refusing to release the University of Adelaide report which has examined the card's viability in the Goldfields region in my home state of Western Australia. That report cost $2.5 million, and we're having to consider this bill without being able to be informed about what it says. There can only be one reason for that, and that is that the government is withholding this evaluation report because it doesn't like what it has to say, because it's sure to be further evidence that this cashless debit card is not achieving the policy objectives and outcomes that the government has been touting.</para>
<para>This is typical of a government that refuses to have its policies directed by sound evidence, a government that prepares to uphold a discredited ideology so that it can adopt punitive policies—not that everyone on the government side is backing this legislation. Last week the Liberal member for Bass, for example, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There is just not enough evidence that supports the view that this program is a game-changer for these communities and the individuals placed on it to justify the associated harm that it causes.</para></quote>
<para>That member dissented from the vote the other day. That's the government's own MP, and she's not alone. The Liberal member for Monash said that he too has problems with this bill. How many others in the government's ranks have that same sentiment but haven't got the gumption to stand up for this?</para>
<para>Let me remind you how this business of income management began. It was back in 2007, in the dying days of the Howard government. When he was Prime Minister, he had Minister Brough imposing the intervention on the Northern Territory. It was the most egregious example of bad policy in recent history, and with it came the BasicsCard, which quarantined 50 per cent of the wealth or income of Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory. The BasicsCard was born out of state sponsored racism so the BasicsCard could target only Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory. The Racial Discrimination Act had to be suspended. The BasicsCard was basically discriminatory, and so is the cashless debit card because it disproportionately impacts First Nations peoples.</para>
<para>Let me remind you how the cashless debit card came into being. Back in 2013, Prime Minister Tony Abbott commissioned Andrew Forrest to advise on Indigenous employment and training services. The terms of reference for Forrest's inquiry were quite specific, and there was definitely no reference to income management of welfare recipients. Yet Forrest in his report, called <inline font-style="italic">Creating </inline><inline font-style="italic">p</inline><inline font-style="italic">arity</inline>, took it upon himself to devote a whole chapter on promoting what he called a healthy welfare card. How a billionaire mining magnate can assume expertise in welfare policy and be allowed to write his own agenda is beyond me. That a government can contract out fundamental social policy gives privatisation a whole new dimension and takes it to a dangerous level. Deputising a privileged rich-lister to design a program that limits the rights of people, poor and First Nations people in particular, to manage their own affairs is a perverse way for a government to do business.</para>
<para>Back in February, when the Prime Minister announced his new Closing the Gap targets, he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… to rob a person of their right to take responsibility for themselves, to strip them of responsibility and capability to direct their own futures, to make them dependent, is to deny them their liberty, and slowly that person will wither before your eyes.</para></quote>
<para>The Prime Minister went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We must restore the right to take responsibility, the right to make decisions, the right to step up …</para></quote>
<para>Well, the Prime Minister and his government are doing exactly the opposite. The government has now pressed the 'get back' button with this legislation.</para>
<para>Where's the principle that is meant to be underwriting the closing the gap agreement between the government and the coalition of First Nations peak organisations, an agreement announced with such fanfare only a few months ago? This bill flies in the face of the flowery rhetoric that followed when the National Agreement on Closing the Gap was signed back in July. The national agreement was meant to signal a turning point in the relationship between Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island peoples and the government. It was meant to be based on shared decision-making on policies and programs that impacted the lives of First Nations peoples. In the past, Labor have been prepared to support income management under certain circumstances. But now we're opposing the permanent imposition of the cashless debit card because of the evidence it isn't working and there being no choice for people.</para>
<para>Let me remind you of the national independent study into the expansion of income management, which was published in February. The study ran over three years and was funded by the Australian Research Council. The researchers came from three universities: Queensland, Monash and Griffith. The findings are damning. The majority of the survey's participants, 77 per cent of them, reported that they had no trouble at all in managing their money before being placed on income management, and 87 per cent of the participants reported that they did not have a problem with alcohol. Most cardholders felt that income management was forced on them, with minimal assistance and support to help them use it to their advantage.</para>
<para>Here's the real telling outcome of the study. People told the researchers that income management had not only failed to alleviate the challenges, which were largely non-existent anyway, but also caused financial or other problems that did not previously exist. Some of the main problems reported in that survey response were: not having enough cash for essential items—and that was the most frequent complaint—difficulties providing for children and other family members because respondents did not have access to sufficient cash; difficulties participating in the cash economy because of a lack of access to cash means many are unable to purchase second-hand goods, for example; and difficulties paying rent and other bills because of glitches with processing payments, particularly with the cashless debit card.</para>
<para>You'd think that with that evidence in hand the government wouldn't consider this intrusive and discriminatory legislation, but they say: 'No, let's crash on. Let's not worry about the impact of the legislation on the most vulnerable of our population. We've a restless support base to appease'—a support base that doggedly wants to punish the poor. That's where this government stands—punish the poor and the disadvantaged. There's no choice for these people.</para>
<para>The evidence against income management is even more distressing when you measure the social and emotional impacts. The ARC study identified from the survey data the strong theme that many of those forced onto income management experienced a significant decline in their mental health and wellbeing as a result of the challenges they faced navigating their lives on the card. Whether the survey interview was conducted at Playford, Shepparton, Ceduna, Bundaberg or Hervey Bay, the sense of shame and stigma was a constant point of discussion. Generally findings from the survey indicated that most respondents felt income management had been harmful rather than helpful. To me that is bad public policy, and we on this side are against it.</para>
<para>What has this government done to prepare the people of the Northern Territory for the serious changes they'll have to navigate? Late last year I received a delegation of First Nations people from Central Australia. They were upset at the lack of consultation about the introduction of the cashless debit card. These people are well aware that the use of the card depends on access to telecommunications and postal services, but in many remote communities in the Northern Territory those fundamental services, which we all take for granted here, are simply not available. No matter how often the government asserts that there has been widespread consultation about the imposition of the cashless debit card, the people who sat down in my office that day and whom I see on the streets of Broome every second day of the week, if not every day of the week, as a consequence of these policies, left my office with a very different story.</para>
<para>The 25,000 or so people in the Northern Territory on the BasicsCard—and more than 80 per cent of them are Aboriginal people—are to be moved arbitrarily onto the cashless debit card. There's no choice for these people. Don't anyone be distracted by the government's argument that the cashless debit card is technologically superior and cheaper to manage. Who's benefiting from the card? Certainly not the people who are on it. No matter how sophisticated or user-friendly the technology might be, it is still derived from a policy that is punitive and discriminatory. Try living the life of a person on this card.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DODSON</name>
    <name.id>SR5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well might senators laugh. No matter how sophisticated or user-friendly the technology might be, it is still derived from a policy that is punitive and discriminatory. Social policy that is driven by flawed ideology and runs counter to sound evidence is bad policy. First Nations peoples have been subjected too long to bad policy. They're fed up with government interference in their lives and they're fed up with being branded as irresponsible, lazy and unable to manage their own affairs. This bill disproportionately discriminates against First Nations people and that means that it's racist. In my mind, to support this bill is to support racism. This government goes on and on about how it wants to do things differently 'with' First Nations people and not 'to' First Nations people. That is a hollow mantra. This bill cannot be supported by Labor.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>21</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: International Travel</title>
          <page.no>21</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. In question time yesterday Mr Morrison falsely claimed that former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd had travelled in and out of Australia while the borders were closed. What is this Prime Minister's problem with telling the truth?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe the Prime Minister has tabled a response in the House addressing those matters.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday Mr Morrison claimed he had exceeded his promise to get 26,200 stranded Australians home by Christmas. Isn't it the case that at least 9,000 of those registered to come home when he made that promise are still stranded? I again ask: what is this Prime Minister's problem with telling the truth?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Since 18 September more than 43,000 Australians have returned home. Over 17,000 of these passengers were registered with DFAT, including more than 3,700 vulnerable Australians. Since the government provided advice to Australians overseas to reconsider the need to travel abroad and to return home, more than 432,000 people have returned home—a significant number passing through the types of quarantine places established across Australia. Those quarantine places are capped and are limited. We are working, as we have been, as closely with the states as possible to make sure there are as many opportunities as can be for Australians to return home but to do so in a way that poses no threat to the safety of Australia and our management of COVID. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 12 November Mr Morrison promised stranded Australians:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There is a queue, and Australians are at the front of the queue.</para></quote>
<para>But the government's own data shows that in October only 50 per cent of the seats on planes arriving in Australia were filled by Australian citizens. What is this Prime Minister's problem with telling the truth?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Our government makes sure it gives priority to Australians in chartering flights and facilitating flights. I can tell you that on those flights, absolutely, priority is firmly and squarely given to Australians. There are commercial flights as well that the government does not facilitate tickets on, but the government has made sure that the criteria for those who may not be Australians returning home are tight. Those criteria include circumstances where an individual may be the partner of an Australian citizen with rights to reside here. These are often compassionate circumstances or circumstances that are essential to the function of government or otherwise. Our effort has been on getting Australians home but doing so in a way that maintains Australia's safe management of COVID-19.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Employment</title>
          <page.no>22</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMALL</name>
    <name.id>291406</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I advise the chamber that this is not my first speech, but I have a question for the Minister for Employment, Skills, Small and Family Business, and a fellow Western Australian, Senator Cash. Minister, through bushfires and COVID-19, this year has seen unprecedented pressure on the Australian labour market. Could the minister please update the Senate on how the Morrison government has supported Australians through this once-in-a-century pandemic to stay connected to the labour force and to find employment and, indeed, the skills that they need to re-enter the workforce?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank my fellow Western Australian senator, Senator Small, and I acknowledge that this is the first question he has asked in this place. I also acknowledge that he very much comes to this place representing the backbone of the Australian economy, because one of the hats he has worn is that of a small-business owner—someone who knows what it's like to have sleepless nights, to employ people and to build up a business. In that respect, he's certainly a welcome skill set in the Senate. Congratulations, Senator Small.</para>
<para>As Australians would be aware, we have performed better than other nations when it comes to the health response to COVID-19, and certainly on the economic front when we look at nearly every other country in the world. What we are now seeing, though, is the beginning of the labour force recovery. Over the last few months we've seen around 648,500 Australians returning to work as lockdowns ease. It is now evident that as you ease those restrictions, ease those lockdowns, more and more businesses are able to open their doors and more and more Australians are able to return to work. Our JobKeeper program has been, of course, instrumental in keeping employees connected to their employment. It is Australia's largest wage subsidy program and it has kept around 3.8 million Australians connected to their employer. It has directly saved, it is estimated, at least 700,000 jobs, building the foundation for our economic recovery.</para>
<para>However, as the Prime Minister says, we know there remains a long road ahead. Certainly, when you look at the employment services case load, it has increased substantially since COVID-19 hit. At the onset of COVID-19, though, the government acted quickly to ensure that our employment services providers were resourced to deal with the influx— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Small, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMALL</name>
    <name.id>291406</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, how will the government's $74 billion JobMaker plan build on the success of our existing employment services programs as we rebuild a stronger economy as part of our comeback from COVID-19?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has a number of employment programs, and these employment programs are designed to get people off welfare and into a job. They include, of course, jobactive; our Youth Jobs PaTH program, which looks at preparing our young people who are at risk of long-term unemployment, giving them the skills they need and the opportunity to undertake work; and, of course, ParentsNext, which is a pre-employment program designed for parents whose youngest child is entering school age and who need to get job ready. As a government we have in place the programs that are specifically designed to improve the employability of Australians so that they are able to take that next step and gain employment.</para>
<para>As we emerge from COVID-19, the government want to build on the record that we already have and improve services for our most affected regions, but also for our most disadvantaged jobseekers—putting in place the policy framework to ensure that those most disadvantaged are able to get into work. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Small, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SMALL</name>
    <name.id>291406</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister outline how these programs will interact with the record investment the Morrison government has provided in skills and training to support jobseekers to get the skills that they need to find new employment as the labour market recovers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As the government know, all of our policies work together. They work together to strengthen the economy so that businesses can reopen their doors and employ more Australians. The policies work together as part of our $74 billion JobMaker plan. Along with putting in place the economic framework required for growth, our employment programs themselves support out-of-work Australians into training and vocational pathways to ensure that they have the skills they need to get a job. Of course, this now works in conjunction with the $1 billion JobTrainer Fund, which provides up to 320,000 free or low-cost training places in areas of actual skills demand. We've worked, as I've said previously, with the states and territories on the ground to understand their actual labour market demand so that, when people are looking at putting their hand up and undertaking these free or low-cost courses, they're getting skilled up for actual areas of labour market demand in that particular state or territory. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>JobSeeker Payment</title>
          <page.no>23</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Families and Social Services, Senator Ruston. An Anglicare survey found that, under the old rate of JobSeeker in March, 72 per cent of respondents skipped meals every week, with most skipping an average of three or four meals a week. How many JobSeeker recipients will be forced to skip meals because the Morrison government is refusing to grant a permanent increase?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for her question. I acknowledge the report today, the Anglicare report, which set out its findings from a limited survey of 618 people on their attitudes towards income support payments and mutual obligations. I am unaware of whether this survey is a representative survey, but I would point out that it is exactly that—a survey. I would say, Senator McAllister, that we on this side know, through massive amounts of validated research across many different organisations and by speaking to many Australians, that the best way to improve outcomes for people, their wellbeing and their livelihoods is to make sure that we have a strong economy that creates jobs so people have got jobs. We know from surveys such as the HILDA Survey that people who live in a household that does not have employment income are much more likely to have worse wellbeing outcomes than those people that live in houses where income is generated through employment. Whilst, obviously, we will continue to work—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McAllister</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My point of order goes to relevance. The minister has indicated that she doesn't necessarily accept the Anglicare survey results, but my question really was about how many JobSeeker recipients she considers will be forced to skip meals. If she doesn't accept the Anglicare results, I'd appreciate understanding what her understanding of the consequences is.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister, with respect, towards the end you strayed from your point of order. The minister can be directly relevant while she is talking about the survey or while she is talking about JobSeeker or one of the other elements of your question. To that extent, the minister is being directly relevant. I can't instruct her how to answer the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The most important thing that we can do to make sure that people have the best possible opportunity and have the wellbeing that we would like every Australian to have is make sure that there are jobs in the economy so people can go to jobs. I'd also point out that the government remains committed to supporting Australians through this pandemic. In fact, in a minute, some legislation will come into this place that seeks to extend the coronavirus supplement, to enable people to have that additional level of support as we recover from this pandemic.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Following the initial reduction of the coronavirus supplement, an ACOSS survey found in September that 80 per cent of respondents would skip meals and reduce their intake of fresh fruit and vegetables. How many children will be forced to skip meals and miss out on fresh fruit and vegetables because the Morrison government is refusing to grant a permanent increase to JobSeeker for their parents?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As this place must acknowledge, since March, when we collectively—everybody—made a decision that we would put additional support in place for all Australians to help them through this once-in-a-century pandemic, we have had in place elevated levels of support through welfare payments, through the coronavirus supplement and through other payments that were made through stimulus payments. But, at the same time, we also worked through the employment situation, to make sure we kept people engaged with their employers, through the JobKeeper program. These measures are still in place. They remain in place now and they will continue to be in place—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My point of order is on direct relevance. This is a question that goes to an issue the Senate is keen to hear an answer on—Australian children being forced to skip meals and miss out on fresh fruit and vegetables. I would ask you to ask the minister to return to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister can be directly relevant to this question by addressing the matters you raised, Senator Wong. The preface to that part of the question also includes a reference to a supplement payment. The minister is in order if she is addressing any part of the question, and I believe she is directly relevant, at the moment, in doing that.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>One of the great hallmarks of Australia's welfare system is that it is comprehensive and it is targeted. In addition to the elevated payments that are currently available to people on welfare, we also have a number of other payments to support them. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Why is the Morrison government prioritising spending $15 million of taxpayers' money on a marketing campaign praising a comeback while leaving Australians behind and forcing them to skip meals during the deepest recession in almost a century?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In 2019, the government spent in excess of $200 billion supporting Australians through our very comprehensive welfare system. I can assure you, Senator McAllister, in 2020, the amount of support that has been provided to the Australian public who find themselves on tough times will be significantly higher than that $200 billion that was spent in the previous year, because we as a government—with the support of those opposite and everyone in this chamber and the other place—voted to support Australians with elevated levels of payment during that time.</para>
<para>In response to your question, the government have stood side by side with Australians who have done it tough through this pandemic. We remain side by side with those people, and we will continue to support them for as long as is needed. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>24</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, Senator Birmingham. A recent paper in top scientific journal <inline font-style="italic">Nature</inline> showed that, after three severe mass coral bleachings in just five years, the coral cover of the Great Barrier Reef is now at 50 per cent. Half the corals are dead. Dead coral does not grow back. It's climate change that is the primary cause of that loss. How much of the Great Barrier Reef has to die before this government will adopt a climate policy that isn't written by the fossil fuel industry?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I completely reject the assertion made by Senator Waters at the end of her question there. Our government, consistently, have worked to make sure that Australia has the policies in place to implement the commitments that Australia has made through stage 2 of the Kyoto protocol commitment period, and we now continue to work hard to implement policies necessary to meet our commitments in relation to the Paris Agreement. We have done that recognising that Australia alone doesn't solve the issues in relation to climate change. Australia alone plays a role—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Whish-Wilson interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take Senator Whish-Wilson's interjection quite happily. The leadership we've shown as a country is the leadership of a nation that makes commitments, delivers on our commitments and exceeds on the delivery of our commitments. We will be quite happy to go anywhere and explain Australia's achievements, the achievements of Australian businesses, of Australian people and of Australian farmers—all of those Australians who have contributed towards reducing Australia's emissions—who have enabled Australia to reduce our emissions by 16.6 per cent since 2005. We have done so knowing that these steps around global cooperation are necessary to tackle issues, including related to the protection of the Great Barrier Reef. We know that Australia alone won't achieve it. But we believe we set a high standard by delivering on our commitments, by exceeding those commitments and by demonstrating to the world that you can do it as a nation, at home—as Australian businesses, households and farmers have successfully done and continue to do.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): Last week, in its three-yearly World Heritage Outlook, the IUCN downgraded the outlook for the Great Barrier Reef to the most severe listing possible, 'critical', due to the threat posed by climate change and water quality. Next year the World Heritage Committee will, once again, consider whether to list the Great Barrier Reef as World Heritage in Danger. This is the last warning that Australia's going to get before a potential 'in danger' listing that would decimate the tourism industry. Will you treat this as a wake-up call or not? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In addition to the action that Australia has taken on emissions reduction and that we continue to take in collaboration with the rest of the world, we have absolutely acted to invest through our reef plans, in collaboration with the Queensland government, to tackle other threats and challenges to the Great Barrier Reef. We know that sedimentary run-off can and does have a real impact in relation to water quality in the reef, and that's why we've invested in a range of different practical initiatives to be able to support and improve that water quality in the reef, to tackle practical issues like the crown-of-thorns starfish and to ensure that works to minimise and eradicate the impact of crown-of-thorns continue as a result of the types of investments made by our government across a range of different mechanisms to support the reef's health and to ensure it continues to be a crucial asset for Australia and our ecology.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, a final supplementary question?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The reason for both the mass coral deaths and the IUCN outlook of 'critical' is climate change. At 1½ degrees we lose 90 per cent of global coral reefs, and at two degrees we lose all of them. Your government's policies have us on track for 4.4 degrees of warming. When will you adopt strong 2030 targets and an actual climate plan to give the reef any hope of survival?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are a few points here. Firstly, there is the oversimplification by the Australian Greens of the challenges the reef faces. I cited, in my previous answer, issues around water quality and issues around crown-of-thorns starfish. There are real issues in addition to the work to be done on climate change, and we continue to make sure that we tackle all of those issues as part of a comprehensive reef management plan that we have worked, despite political and other differences, with Queensland governments to fund, to implement and to deliver over a period of time.</para>
<para>When it comes to the work around emissions reduction, I again point to the fact that Australia, since 2005, has achieved a 16.6 per cent reduction in our emissions. New Zealand have reduced theirs over a similar period of time by one per cent. Canada has largely flatlined. The OECD average is around nine per cent, so when it comes to domestic emissions reduction Australia stands tall. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Trade with China</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Trade, Senator Birmingham. Minister, as you know, wine exports are a billion-dollar industry in South Australia and employ many thousands of people. China's new wine tariffs will devastate many businesses and people across the state. Already there are reports of jobs being lost and businesses cutting back in the new year. Just today, the ABC has reported China is adding even more restrictions on Australian beef. What support is the government putting in place to protect South Australian businesses and South Australian jobs from the Chinese tariffs?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Griff for his question. I know he has a strong interest—as do I, and I suspect this is an interest shared by all South Australian senators and by senators from all wine-producing states across Australia—in the concern we have around the imposition by China of a provision on antidumping measures of between 107 per cent and 212 per cent on Australian wine imported into China. Our government reiterates that we are not aware of any evidence that Australian wine exporters have dumped their product in the Chinese market. Indeed, to the contrary, our exporters have worked hard to establish themselves as reliable suppliers of premium wine to the China market. They've done so selling at, on average, the second-highest price point in the China market. China is, for Australian exports of wine, the highest-price-point large market, demonstrating that, far from dumping, we absolutely send premium product at premium prices into that market.</para>
<para>We are working closely, in response to these issues, with the Australian wine industry to respond, using the 10-day window provided by the Chinese Ministry of Commerce for a response to their findings, and to support the Australian industry in their response to these investigations. We also continue to work closely with industry to seek to pursue every other opportunity for Australian exporters to be able to tap into the rest of the world. Under our network of trade agreements that our government has negotiated, Australian exporters have opportunities in countries like Korea, Vietnam and the United States under previous FTAs, and in Japan as of next year, to be able to export wine duty free and tariff free into those markets. We want to support them to grow those markets, as we aspire to do in other markets around the world too.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Griff, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, job losses will be concentrated in a handful of South Australian regions such as the Barossa and McLaren Vale. The Commonwealth has historically established regional adjustment funds to assist displaced workers in specific areas. These funds stimulated local investment, offered retraining and provided employment services. Will the minister commit to supporting workers with a wine industry adjustment fund?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We provide a range of measures to support the wine industry in terms of their marketing and access to other sales opportunities around the world. We do that through the wine equalisation tax rebate, which sees—in the case of most small wine producers—them paying no net wine equalisation tax at all. We do that through funding and support provided to Wine Australia, which helps and enables exporters to be able to grow and reach into other markets around the world. Our commitment is certainly to continue to work closely with the Australian wine industry, which has shown a great resilience and adaptability over a period of decades. It's an industry that has seen surpluses and vine pulls as well as shortages and planting schemes, so it knows that these challenges come from time to time. I am confident that by standing alongside them we will be able to help them pivot to other markets and pursue those other opportunities.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Griff, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I take it, Minister, based on your answer, that you won't commit to supporting a wine industry adjustment fund. We have now experienced a damaging series of trade disruptions across many sectors, with the government's approach primarily being reactive. Does the government accept the need for a proactive approach to building resilience—you did mention resilience previously, Minister—and, if so, what actions are you planning to take?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Griff. The resilience, in terms of opportunities for Australian exporters, comes from the range of opportunities and avenues that are available to them. When our government was elected, around 27 per cent or thereabouts of Australia's exports were covered by preferential tariff access into export markets. As a result of the work we have done—not just through the China FTA but by negotiating FTAs that give preferential access into markets like Japan, the Republic of Korea, Canada, Mexico, Vietnam, Indonesia, Hong Kong and Peru—these are a range of markets for which we have provided opportunities and avenues for Australian exporters to enjoy a comparative advantage. We stand alongside them through our Export Market Development Grants, through the work of our Austrade officers and through a range of other supports to help them grow their exports, which they have done across a range of markets and which we'll continue to support them to do.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Birmingham.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pensions and Benefits</title>
          <page.no>26</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. Yesterday, Senator Birmingham said that the robodebt scheme 'obviously had issues'. When did the Morrison government first become aware that the robodebt scheme 'obviously had issues'?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I did yesterday, I refer the senator to the answers that Senator Ruston has given on those matters.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kitching, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Was the government told in a departmental brief on or around 1 March 2017 that a third of robodebts had been reassessed and reduced to zero dollars?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to a particular departmental brief on a particular date, I will take that on notice and seek to provide a response to the senator. I would reiterate in this matter that it is important for governments to be able to ensure that taxpayer dollars, where they are paid out, are paid where they are validly meant to go. And, in relation to our government, we have acknowledged on this program that there was a need to refund certain payments and to correct in relation to those issues. We equally stand by the need to make sure that taxpayer dollars are respected and that the Commonwealth recoups those where they have been wrongly claimed.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Kitching, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Did the government have information in January 2017 suggesting that up to 86 per cent of robodebts issued had to be reassessed?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Our government has worked through these issues, which have been the subject of extensive questioning in relation to the dates, which the senator refers to, that particular information may have been provided. If there is something further to be provided in relation to the information I took on notice before—which, I suspect, has probably already been dealt with through Senate estimates committee hearings in questions to Senator Ruston of a highly repetitive nature around dates and times—I will make sure that it is included. But it does not negate the fact that the government sought to make sure taxpayer dollars went to the purpose for which they were intended, and our government will continue to do so, where we can and where appropriate.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Territory: Energy</title>
          <page.no>27</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McMAHON</name>
    <name.id>282728</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Senator Birmingham, the Minister representing the Minister for Energy and Emissions Reduction. Can the minister update the Senate on how the Morrison-McCormack government's plan to ensure reliable, secure and affordable energy will support jobs, particularly in my Northern Territory, as part of our economy comeback from COVID?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McMahon for her question. She is a passionate Territorian who knows full well that the natural resources—the energy resources—of the Territory are crucial to its domestic economy and to so many of its export opportunities as well. Indeed, our government is focused on delivering affordable, reliable energy to support the economy, including the economy of the Territory, and new jobs. Affordable and reliable power will help to lower cost-of-living pressures on families and to ensure local businesses can grow and thrive, which in turn helps to ensure that comeback of jobs and the economy across the board that we are seeing right now.</para>
<para>Australia's competitive advantage has always been based on its cheap energy. The right mix of renewables, gas and energy sources is central to our ongoing economic recovery and competitiveness. We expect to see those natural resources working effectively for Australians. A key part of this is to deliver to Australians, and to industry and businesses that rely upon gas, the gas resources that are necessary, at the right price. Our focus is on unlocking supply, ensuring efficient transportation and empowering Australian consumers. We know that gas is a critical enabler of Australia's economy, supporting a manufacturing sector employing 850,000 Australians across the board. We know also that the Territory relies on gas generation to keep the lights on, with almost 60 per cent of electricity generation in the Territory coming from gas. Though that mix may change over time, it is an important part of any transitional growth in the renewables sector as well.</para>
<para>The Territory is in prime position to take advantage of the opportunities and benefits of gas. With a skilled workforce, this can grow to both onshore and offshore development opportunities. It can help with the transition in terms of a lower emissions future, without imposing new costs on businesses but whilst growing jobs and opportunities across the Territory.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McMAHON</name>
    <name.id>282728</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister outline to the Senate how our government is investing in new energy technologies that will benefit Territorians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know that, for example, initiatives like microgrids can help reduce electricity bills in regional and remote communities, helping those communities to adapt and achieve innovative technologies, or distributed energy sources like solar and batteries to reduce their reliance on costly diesel generation. Round 2 of our regional and remote communities reliability fund opens on 16 December and will help fund feasibility studies that will look at establishing a microgrid or upgrading existing off-grid technologies which would better meet the electricity supply needs of regional and remote communities.</para>
<para>Under round 1 of the program, $5½ million was delivered for the Territory across five grants in 25 different locations. We have also invested more than $2 million through ARENA in the Alice Springs future grid project, which aims to overcome barriers to generating renewable energy and support affordable renewable energy for 30,000 residents in Alice Springs and communities up to 130 kilometres away. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McMahon, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McMAHON</name>
    <name.id>282728</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister please update the Senate on how our government is supporting gas developments, including in the Beetaloo Basin, that will drive down prices of energy for businesses and for consumers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As part of our government's policies, we look to unlock, as I said before, new gas supply that can help to drive down prices for all Australians, particularly those job-creating Australian businesses and industries that rely upon it. Under our reforms, the Beetaloo Basin is one of the first of our government's five strategic basin plans. These plans highlight the ways that the gas development in the basin can be accelerated, and we welcome the opportunity to work with the Northern Territory government on this. Unlocking the Beetaloo is an exciting economic opportunity for the Northern Territory. It is a world-class province with an estimated size bigger than any other known gas resource off the North West Shelf. Early drilling activity has confirmed the positive opportunities there, which could not only improve our gas security but potentially Australia's fuel security as well. The development of gas reserves in the Beetaloo has the potential to generate billions of dollars for the Territory economy and create over 6,000 jobs. This is a great opportunity for the Territory, and we are committed to delivering upon it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Defence Force</title>
          <page.no>28</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. On 13 July the Prime Minister changed the special operation unit citation regulations. He made it so that unit citations can be collectively or individually cancelled or individually forfeited on conviction for a disgraceful or serious offence. What was the Prime Minister's trigger for making these changes in July this year?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If we go back over the history of some of the steps around citations, in February 2018, I understand, the then Minister for Defence Personnel sought approval to make a number of amendments to defence honours and awards, including in relation to recommendations from inquiries via the Defence Honours and Awards Appeal Tribunal in 2014 and 2015 relating to the withholding and forfeiture of awards. In May 2018, the then Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister agreed to a full review of the relevant instruments. Following extensive drafting efforts in May 2020, the Minister for Defence recommended a range of changes to the Australian Operational Service Medal, the Australian Defence Medal and unit citations. Those were then given effect in accordance with the normal process in July 2020.</para>
<para>Senator Lambie, I guess the point of going through that history is that, in fact, it dates right back to 2015, when a full review of defence honours, awards, instruments and medals was undertaken. The review was undertaken in order to strengthen and expand the eligibility for certain awards, to reflect previously agreed recommendations of the reviews of tribunals, as I referenced, and to ensure consistency in terminology and definitions. They were the reasons for those changes. As I did last week, I want to make sure in relation to all of these matters that I restate very much the fact that our government, you and all members of this place, acknowledge the service and sacrifice of those who have served us, including in Afghanistan, and that the overwhelmingly vast majority have done so with pride, distinction and honour.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Birmingham. Senator Lambie, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We all know about the Brereton report back in 2015, so just when you decided to change all this it seems. These timings are starting to line-up. Did the Prime Minister consult with the Chief of Defence Force or the Minister for Defence before making any of those changes?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said in stepping through the process, the changes that were made in July 2020 were a function of quite a long process dating back some six years. There were extensive consultation opportunities through that time, from the original recommendations of the reviews by the Defence Honours and Awards Appeals Tribunal in 2014 and 2015 and then subsequent opportunities for consultation which were certainly undertaken by the relevant agencies of government.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister's changes were the first time the regulations for this citation have been amended in 30 years. Why, after 30 years, were these changes made a few months before the Brereton report was handed down, and is that just a coincidence?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Indeed, the processes around these, starting in 2014 and 2015, actually began before the Brereton report was even commissioned, so it certainly is the case that the initial instigators, if you like, of these changes in relation to citation and award practices dated back prior to the commissioning of the Brereton report. The changes were made well before that report was completed and before the Prime Minister was briefed on it. The Prime Minister was only briefed on the content of that report in November of 2020, some months after the changes had been made in July of 2020.</para>
<para>The government understands the extreme sensitivities in relation to these matters. It is why we expect them to be handled with sensitivity and why we are at pains to stress and reinforce the fact that we have nothing but the highest of regard for the exemplary service of the vast majority of Australian service men and women. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care: Home-Care Packages</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Aged Care and Senior Australians, Senator Colbeck. How many older Australians in their 80s and 90s are still waiting for their approved level 4 packages because the Morrison government have left them behind?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't have the exact number for level 4 with me, but the number of Australians waiting on the national priority list for aged-care home-care packages is just under 100,000 as of the beginning of November. I don't have the breakdown for each level, but that number of people who are waiting for home-care packages has, of course, reduced significantly over the last 12 months or so, since March last year. In March last year, the number of people waiting for a home-care package was about 129,000, and it's now under 100,000—about 98,000 or 99,000. That is because of the significant investment that we have put into the home-care sector over recent years, with $4.6 billion invested into home-care packages since the 2018-19 budget; 23,000 packages at a cost of $1.6 billion over the forward estimates in this year's budget announced just recently; and, of course, 6,105 new home-care packages announced as part of the economic statement that we released in July. So there are almost 30,000 new packages this financial year. When we came to government in 2013, there were only 60,000 home care packages in the system. There will be 185,000 packages in the system by the time we get to the end of this financial year. I'm happy to come back to the chamber with the exact number of people on a level 4 package that are on the national priority list. As I've said, the total number on the national priority list is around 99,000.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Polley, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Why is the minister still sending letters to older Australians to advise them that they've been assigned a home-care package even though they passed away 12 months ago?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is very unfortunate that some people receive letters, and I myself have had communication with some of those families that have received a letter offering a home-care package or about a home-care package—in some circumstances it's to inquire whether people intend to take up their allocated home-care package—after a person has passed away. But, unfortunately, the responsibility for notification of deaths goes through state systems, and sometimes it takes some time for those notifications to pass through to the Commonwealth. So this is not, as the opposition might like to try to portray, some sort of blame-shifting exercise.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Wong! Senator Rennick!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a fact that sometimes the systems take time to report through to the system. I have asked on a number of occasions—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Colbeck! The time for the answer has expired, even though I struggled to hear it. Senator Polley, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How many letters has the minister sent to older Australians, advising them they've been assigned a home care package, after they have, sadly, passed away? Can you now promise that no more grieving families will receive these distressing letters?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Unfortunately, I am not able to guarantee that no further families will receive such a letter. I have been asked to do that on a number of occasions, but, unfortunately, the flow of data doesn't give me the capacity to do that.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Polley, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Polley</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question I asked initially was: how many letters have you sent out? You haven't even attempted to answer that!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Polley, that, quite frankly, was an abuse of a point of order. There is no way the minister could have been more directly relevant to the question. If people don't make an attempt to make a point of order on direct relevance, I am going to clamp down on a simple restating of the question. The minister was being absolutely and utterly directly relevant to the question asked.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> My condolences to any family member who has lost a loved one. I have to say, I am sorry that people get such letters after their family members have passed away. They have my sincere condolences and apologies. That is not the way we would like to run the system, but, unfortunately, sometimes notifications into My Aged Care take some time, and those letters are sent out. I am happy to come back to the chamber with the number Senator Polley has asked for with respect to those letters, but I can't guarantee that those letters won't go out in the future. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Defence Force</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOLAN</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Defence, Senator Reynolds. Can the minister provide an update on Defence's international operations, deployments and engagements in 2020 to help make Australia more secure?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Molan for his question and also for his service to our nation. This year has challenged all Australians as individuals but also as a nation. In many ways 2020 has also been a year like no other for Defence, but Defence adapted very quickly in February and continued to work COVID-19 safe. Vital exercises and engagements have continued. There have been 4,800 ADF personnel deployed overseas this year. The Air Force completed more than 53,000 hours of flying. We've had 25 ships at sea throughout the year. The Army undertook more than 100 international engagements and activities involving 900 personnel. We've supported our Pacific family, including during humanitarian emergencies. Our largest regional presence deployment involved five ships and engagements with 11 regional partners. In 2020 we've concluded mentoring and training missions in both Afghanistan and Iraq. We continue to contribute to coalitions dedicated to defeating terrorism, including in Iraq and Syria, and we are supporting our UN partners by contributing to peacekeeping efforts.</para>
<para>I most sincerely thank all Defence and ADF members who have served domestically and internationally in what has been such a challenging year. I especially thank all their families, whose support allowed those in uniform and in the department to serve our nation with such great distinction this year. I ask all Australians to spare a thought for our personnel deployed away from home both domestically and internationally this Christmas. I thank them all for their service.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Molan, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOLAN</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister provide an update on the ADF's domestic activities, including defence assistance to the civil community, in 2020?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This has been an extraordinary year for the ADF and Defence here in Australia. We conducted the two largest-ever domestic operations to support our nation in our nation's history. We have assisted thousands and thousands of Australians throughout the year. First of all, Operation Bushfire Assist involved more than 8,200 ADF personnel. It was the largest-ever mobilisation of the ADF in response to a domestic disaster. This included thousands of evacuations, transporting emergency service personnel, setting up shelters, delivering meals and so much more. While the embers were still burning, however, Defence started Operation COVID-19 Assist, which has now become our largest-ever domestic assistance operation. So far, as of today, over 11,000 Defence and ADF personnel have deployed. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Molan, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOLAN</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As part of Defence's extensive assistance to Commonwealth, state and territory authorities during this year how has the Royal Australian Air Force's No. 34 Squadron helped provide continuity of government and our democratic processes in 2020?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for the question. I'm sure I speak on behalf of each and every senator in this place here today when I thank most sincerely Air Force's No. 34 Squadron for its work supporting the parliament and executive government during the pandemic. More than 1,400 passengers—members of parliament and staff predominantly—were transported over 267 legs. In the early days of the pandemic we simply would not have been able to start the parliament without their safe and efficient service, their sense of humour, their adaptability and their commitment to this nation. So, on behalf of us all, I thank No. 34 Squadron for their service this year. They have kept our federal parliament and the government running this year. Thank you.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Sport Infrastructure Grant Program</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Youth and Sport, Senator Colbeck. The Morrison government-controlled Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit found the administration of the $100 million sports rorts scandal 'did not satisfy public and community expectations'. Does the minister agree with the findings of the government-controlled committee, which includes coalition senators Chandler, O'Sullivan and Scarr?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Green for her question and I thank the senators and House of Reps members on the Public Accounts and Audit Committee for their work on the report. The report was tabled in the House yesterday, obviously. The government will appropriately consider the recommendations in the report and then we will, as process dictates, respond to the parliament. The committee considered a number of programs as part of its inquiry. As I've said, we will consider the report in the usual manner and make a government response.</para>
<para>In respect of the recommendations the ANAO made and the Public Accounts and Audit Committee report made yesterday, the government has already taken a number of actions with respect to the application of the government grant guidelines and their alignment. Sport Australia accepted all three recommendations that the ANAO made to them in the ANAO report. The government accepted the recommendation that was directed to the government and has put in place measures to effect all of the recommendations of the ANAO report. The recommendations in the report handed down yesterday had a very similar context, so we will consider those matters and we will report to the parliament in the usual way.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Green, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government-controlled committee found there was 'significant uncertainty regarding the legal basis for the minister's role in approving grants'. Does the minister agree that Senator McKenzie should appear before the Select Committee on Administration of Sports Grants to explain her understanding of decision-making, including the involvement of the Prime Minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's not up to me to determine what another senator does. That is not my role. My understanding is that Senator McKenzie has provided a substantial submission to the committee. She's provided support to the committee with respect to their work. But it is not the role of one individual senator in this place, any individual senator, to dictate what another senator might do. We are all elected here in our own right.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Wong! Senator Birmingham?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a point of order, Mr President. You have called Senator Wong to order quite a number of times today.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A couple of times, actually. Senator Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order, I accept that. But it is not about one person; it's about the Westminster system—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, please resume your seat. I had been calling you to order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My understanding of the circumstances is that the committee has written to Senator McKenzie seeking her further assistance. Senator McKenzie will clearly make a decision with respect to it.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Colbeck. Senator Green, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If even the government controlled committee, which includes Senators Chandler, O'Sullivan and Scarr, acknowledges evidence of the favouritism shown to government seats and MPs and Liberal Party candidates in the allocation of sport grants, why can't the Prime Minister tell the truth?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not sure that I would characterise the report in the context that Senator Green tries to portray it in the chamber today. Having had a look at the report and having considered its recommendations, I can say it talks about the processes of the operation of a number of grant programs, including the Community Sport Infrastructure grant program. We will consider the report, as appropriate, and we will respond to the parliament in the usual way. I don't accept the characterisation of the mindset of my colleagues on that committee that Senator Green tries to portray in her question.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Security</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLACHLAN</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs. Will the minister update the House on how the Morrison government is working to keep Australians safe from the threat of terrorism and violent extremist ideologies?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McLachlan for the question. Mr President, as you'd be aware, a fundamental priority of the Morrison government is to keep Australia and Australians safe. Despite the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, the reality is that the threat of terrorism has, unfortunately, not subsided. The Morrison government has, however, invested records amounts of funding in our law enforcement agencies. There is the investment we're making into, for example, ASIO, AUSTRAC and other agencies within the Department of Home Affairs. It is directed at keeping Australians safe.</para>
<para>We know that during COVID-19 many terrorist organisations have sought to exploit the increased time that Australians have spent at home and online. Targeting young and impressionable minds, they have shamelessly exploited the situation to propagate information, ideologies and dangerous and destructive views that seek to do real harm to Australians not only in our country but across the Western world. What we have unfortunately seen in Paris and the United States and across Asia and the Middle East are the sorts of atrocities that these people would seek to perpetrate in Australia and on Australian soil against innocent men, women and children.</para>
<para>As a government we need to deal with the threat of terrorism whenever it may eventuate. Since September 2014, we have had 117 people charged as a result of counterterrorism operations, and there are 22 people currently before the courts for terrorism related offences. These are people who would seek to do significant harm to Australia and Australians, but the Morrison government is working night and day to make sure they are not successful.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McLachlan, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLACHLAN</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How is the Morrison government investing to keep Australians safe online and protect Australia from increasing cybersecurity threats?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia's cybersecurity capabilities are strong but, as we'd all be aware, the threats we face online are increasing. It is estimated that a significant cyberattack impacting Australia for four weeks could cost the economy as much as $30 billion and an estimated 163,000 jobs. As part of our 2020-21 budget, the government will provide an additional $202 million to deliver the 2020 Cyber Security Strategy, creating a more-secure online world for all Australians. This now takes the government's total funding for the strategy to $1.7 billion to provide a cybersecurity uplift that is fit for purpose in the evolving online environment. This strategy will protect Australians, their businesses and, of course, the essential services that we all depend upon.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McLachlan, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLACHLAN</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As Australians begin to travel again over the Christmas period, what will the Morrison government be doing to ensure that they can enjoy their holidays and reunite with their families safely and securely.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Since the Morrison government was elected to office we have passed 20 tranches of national security legislation. This legislation has ensured that Australia has the most-modern and most-up-to-date laws that deal with the reality of encryption and the ways in which terrorist groups conceal their influencing activities on the internet. This is supporting our law enforcement agencies to detect and disrupt threats as soon as possible for the safety of all Australians. All Australians should be reassured that over the Christmas period and over the new year period our officers will be working 24/7 on the front line, and there are of course many people in the Department of Home Affairs who will be supporting them in that work. On behalf of the government senators, I would like to commend those officers for the work they do to keep Australia and Australians safe.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that further questions be placed on notice.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>33</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care: Home-Care Packages</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In response to the questions from Senator Polley, the number of people on the national priority system as at 1 December for a level 4 home-care package is 14,375. Unfortunately, I'm not able to give you a number for the people who have received letters regarding home-care packages subsequent to their family member passing away, because that figure relies on that being reported back to the government. We don't have full information on that because it relies on people reporting it back to us at this point in time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>33</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: International Travel</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KENEALLY</name>
    <name.id>LNW</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Birmingham) to a question without notice asked by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate (Senator Wong) today relating to public statements made by the Prime Minister.</para></quote>
<para>Senator Wong raised with Senator Birmingham the fact that, yesterday in question time, the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, in the other place stated a falsehood. This is often the way with this Prime Minister: on his feet in question time just throwing out accusations without basis and without foundation. What did he claim? He claimed that former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd had been going in and out of Australia, taking up quarantine spaces from stranded Australians. No such thing ever happened. Former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has been in Queensland since March. He has not left the country. He has not taken up a quarantine space from a stranded Australian. But I will tell you which former Prime Minister is taking up quarantine spaces that stranded Australians are not being able to use—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ciccone</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Which one?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KENEALLY</name>
    <name.id>LNW</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone asks, 'Which one?' It's former Prime Minister Tony Abbott. Former Prime Minister Tony Abbott is travelling overseas, not on Australian government business, on UK government business. He's going overseas, coming back, taking up a quarantine space, going overseas again, coming back, taking up a quarantine space. That means two stranded Australians will not spend Christmas with their families because of former Prime Minister Tony Abbott—not former Prime Minister Rudd, as Scott Morrison falsely claimed. We haven't heard about that from Scott Morrison. Two spaces—you might think, 'What's two spaces?' Let me tell you something: the number of stranded Australians has grown and grown.</para>
<para>On 18 September the Prime Minister promised the 26,000 stranded Australians on DFAT's list would be home by Christmas. Only 17,000 have made it back. There are some 9,000 people who are on that DFAT list of 18 September who literally have two days to make it back to Australia, go through quarantine and get out to be able to celebrate Christmas with their families. Of course they have a hope of celebrating Christmas with their families; the Prime Minister promised it would happen. When the Prime Minister makes a promise, maybe the people of Australia should be able to rely on it. As a citizen of Australia, you should be able to rely on your Prime Minister's promises. When he looks down the barrel of a camera and he says, 'I'm going to get all those stranded Australians home by Christmas,' of course stranded Australians think they can rely on that. But what do we know about this Prime Minister, Scott Morrison? He has trouble telling the truth. He's all about the headline, never about the delivery. He's always there for the photo op, never there for the follow-up. It is cruel. In this circumstance, it is cruel.</para>
<para>As Senator Gallagher, Senator Watt and I on the COVID committee have heard, there are stranded Australians who have been trying to come back to this country since March. They have had flights cancelled. They have spent tens of thousands of dollars—$50,000, $60,000, $70,000—trying to get flights back to Australia. They have lost their homes. They have lost their jobs. They are being sent to homeless shelters. They are living off food banks and charities. They are running afoul of visa conditions in other countries. They are facing a Northern Hemisphere winter in the middle of a global pandemic. It is un-Australian to leave your mates behind, but that is precisely what the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, is doing. He is leaving Australians behind. He has made them a promise and he is breaking that promise. He is breaking their hearts.</para>
<para>When you see photos of the Prime Minister on his social media putting up his Christmas tree and sitting around his Christmas lunch with his family, well, good for him! I am happy, and I wish the Prime Minister and his family a merry Christmas. But when we see those photos let us not forget that there are now 40,000 stranded Australians stuck overseas, barred from coming back to their country by this Prime Minister. You know what? He has a COVID-safe way to bring them back. Jane Halton, his hand picked expert, handed him a report that's told him how to increase quarantine capacity, told him that the federal government should take responsibility, told him that the federal government should open up a quarantine facility with a human health response zone and told him that they had a responsibility to bring these stranded Australians home in the middle of a global pandemic. This Prime Minister has such a problem with the truth. This Prime Minister is letting people down and leaving Australians behind.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have to say, I enjoyed that. I enjoyed it for the following reasons: that was the very, very definition of the sound of straws being clutched at. You could actually hear them hitting the ground, as you would expect. There are a number of fairly flowery statements that were made. I did like—and I have to pay tribute to this one—bringing back the spectre of former Prime Minister Tony Abbott, who gets a run. It's good to see the Australian Labor Party finding a way to bring him back, even into this debate. I could bring back a few issues myself; I've still got an issue with Gough Whitlam and <inline font-style="italic">Blue Poles</inline>. We can always go back and run over that.</para>
<para>There are issues that we need to fact check. I know my friends on the other side of the chamber love an ABC fact check. Their mates at the ABC do a fact check; they do them all the time. I don't think they do them well. I'm going to do one well for you, because a series of facts have been overlooked. The fact of the matter here is that the Prime Minister made a statement yesterday and he has corrected it. It happens. The truth of the matter is that this government has helped numerous people to return to Australia during what has been a very, very difficult. I know that my friends opposite like to ebb and flow when it comes to understanding the very difficult nature of this COVID-19 pandemic. This is not been a run-of-the-mill operation to send a plane overseas to go and collect some people.</para>
<para>We've seen over 432,000 Australians return from overseas since the government recommended that people reconsidered the need to travel abroad back in March. My friends on the other side of the chamber like to make it sound like everyone's just been abandoned, the government has dropped the ball and left everyone stranded in various different hotspots. It's just not the case. The fact is the COVID-19 pandemic is still, as we speak, not over—another fact for my friends on the other side of the chamber—and the government's continuing to support Australians overseas while at the same time managing the delicate balancing act of protecting Australians' health and safety and the community at home. Since 18 September—we are talking two months ago—43,000 Australians have been returned home. Once again, that's a fact check—not an ABC fact check but a real one. Over 17,000 of these passengers have been registered with DFAT, including more than 3,700 vulnerable Australians.</para>
<para>What this means in real terms is that, during the pandemic, 32,000 Australian citizens and permanent residents have returned home on over 370 flights—that is, 370 flights in the middle of a pandemic. That is not just sending a Cessna to collect a couple of mates down at the RSL bowls club on Kangaroo Island. Seventy-six of these flights have been directly facilitated by the government, and they've gone into difficult locations such as Peru, South Africa, India and the UK. Let me say that the experience of negotiating access across borders with different governments has been no mean feat. The government has delivered and has done it well. Twelve commercial flights have been facilitated by the government since 23 October, returning 1,700 passengers, including a facilitated flight with Qantas from Dili to Hobart that landed this last Sunday with around 120 passengers. Once again, at the risk of repeating it, these are facts—not ABC facts, but facts.</para>
<para>Currently, 3,900 Australians are registered with DFAT as wishing to return home. Some may not take up the immediate option to return, while others may seek to return home at a later date due to particular circumstances. That is the nature of the ebb and flow of the situation that DFAT and the government find themselves in in the middle of this pandemic. The DFAT administered hardship program has actually distributed over $10 million to 1,900 Australians overseas to cover the cost of accommodation, subsistence and flights, as they may be. Australians have been as well catered for as can possibly be expected during this very difficult time. It is just incorrect to try to politicise this, to raise the spectre of past prime ministers or to do whatever other straw-clutching exercises we've seen. This government has allocated $60 million to support Australians to return home. Melbourne Airport, the second-largest, has been taking international arrivals since July. DFAT of course will not remove any Australians from its registration database without their consent. This program continues to bring Australians home and it continues to do so in a timely and safe manner. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I look forward to the time when Senator Antic's training wheels come off and he can get through five minutes without a heap of notes. But I've got to take exception to one thing he said. <inline font-style="italic">Blue Poles</inline>, for goodness sake, is worth $350 million; it had to be a good decision 40 years ago to buy that. Anyway, let's get back to the basics here. We have a Prime Minister who misled on the activities of a former prime minister. Obviously, he did that on advice of his department, which clearly was errant advice. But instead of coming out, looking down the camera and saying, 'I stuffed up. I made an awful mistake there and I apologise for that mistake,' and moving on, I hear that he tables a letter in the parliament. He doesn't address the issue directly, as Australians like to see: when you make a mistake, fess up, own up, apologise and move on. No, he tables a letter. He tries to avoid the scrutiny of it.</para>
<para>All of this angst on these Australians who are stranded far away in difficult circumstances could be avoided, as I said earlier this week, if they allocated one-tenth of the political will and finances that they did when they set up a regional processing facility in Nauru to take care of 657 people. They spent approaching $500 million in a year. We don't expect $500 million to be disbursed around the globe to bring people home. They'd probably stay there if you did that—they'd take the million each and stay there!</para>
<para>The problem is there's no acceptance that human quarantine is a federal responsibility. When the history of this pandemic is written, it'll be one of the failures of this government—they didn't set the responsibility at the appropriate place, take charge, set the standard all around the country and, as their own expert said, if necessary, set up a processing facility. They did it in the irregular maritime arrivals area and stopped the boats. Here they have the availability of aircraft. They could just lease them, sell the seats in them or whatever, get people to appropriate places, process them and, in 14 days, allow them to get home.</para>
<para>As Senator Keneally and others have said, there are an immense number of Australians who are not going to see their family at Christmas, and I think that's to the Prime Minister's enduring shame. Don't promise if you can't deliver. I have no problem if he'd said it's too difficult to do it for Christmas, if it's logistically impossible, or if he was cautious. But, no, he had bravado and said: 'I'll have them all home for Christmas. And, by the way, that former Labor Prime Minister's buggering up the system up taking up extra spaces.' It's all erroneous, and he's not going to get people home for Christmas.</para>
<para>If I had relatives and family stranded overseas, I'd be beside myself, because some of the places they're stranded in are not good spaces. I have cousins in England and the United Kingdom, and some of those cousins haven't seen their grandchildren for months—newborn grandchildren in the same country. Can you imagine what it's like for a parent to have a child, a son or a daughter, or an aged parent overseas that can't get home?</para>
<para>I met someone in the parliament very recently. Their wife went to visit an ill relative in the United Kingdom, and now it looks like March before she'll get a flight home. They're mature people and they can conquer that distance, but it's not good. We have a prime minister who promised, and we have a prime minister who says things which are totally wrong. Then, avoiding scrutiny by tabling a letter is a very disturbing way for a prime minister to act.</para>
<para>If you look at what's happened with the honourable Mathias Cormann: 'Take a plane, mate. Take a plane. Just go and fly around all the places. You'll get COVID, so you better take a private plane.' And it's a private job. I don't think it's a job that is obligated to Australia; I think it's his position. So why would he get a $4,300 an hour plane to go and get a private position? That's got to be stood against the test of someone who's ill and wants to get home to their family for Christmas. When Australians look at that, it'll be a fail, a total fail.</para>
<para>I don't say Prime Minister Morrison does everything badly, but he's obviously taken some really poor advice in respect to the former Labor Prime Minister, and the way he handled that I think is pretty low. Australians expect a higher standard. If that was Bob Hawke or someone else, they'd get up and say: 'Look, I stuffed up. I'm really sorry. I made a mistake, and I won't do it again,' and off they go. But to table a letter saying, 'I might have misled the parliament,' is a very low standard.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I must say I agree with Senator Gallacher in relation to his observation with respect to <inline font-style="italic">Blue Poles</inline>. I think it was actually a great investment—and I did get an acknowledgement from Senator Gallacher as he left—and I think it's probably worth somewhere north of $350 million this current day.</para>
<para>This issue with respect to former prime ministers and travel, I think it was—and my wife, Louise, if she's watching would remind me—a month ago that my wife was walking our two rescued greyhounds, Chloe and Faye, when Louise actually walked past our former Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, who has a family member who lives in our suburb, and had a convivial exchange with him. It's a bit of a shame that we can't bring that conviviality, with respect to former Prime Ministers, into this place, because I think all former prime ministers should be treated with the respect that their service to our country commands. I say that with respect to prime ministers from both sides of politics.</para>
<para>The fact of the matter is that, when our Prime Minister became aware of the fact that a statement he made in the House of Representatives in response to a personal attack against former Prime Minister Tony Abbott—let's not forget that; it was in response to a personal attack against former Prime Minister Tony Abbott—was incorrect, at the first opportunity, he wrote to the Clerk. This is what he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I am writing to inform you that in Question Time today, I made the following statement in response to a question from the Member for Corio in relation to Australians returning home during the pandemic, based on information I understood to be correct at the time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">I thank the member for </inline> <inline font-style="italic">his question and wonder why he'</inline> <inline font-style="italic">d want to bring personalities into this, given that Mr Rudd has done the same thing.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I have subsequently been advised that Mr Rudd has not travelled internationally during the pandemic, and was not one of the 95,525 individuals … who had been independently granted an exemption …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I also apologise to Mr Rudd for the statement and am pleased to correct the record.</para></quote>
<para>What is not transparent about that? At the first opportunity, our Prime Minister corrected the record and issued an apology to former Prime Minister Rudd. I think that entirely meets the expectations of the Australian community with respect to how a prime minister should respond on such an occasion.</para>
<para>And then, when that issue is raised by Senator Keneally, she reverts back to attacking former Prime Minister Tony Abbott. She can't resist it; Senator Keneally can't resist the personal attack. She can't resist it. She reverts back to the personal attack on former Prime Minister Tony Abbott, who is not in a position to defend himself in this place. And then Senator Kennelly makes quite a demeaning, sneering comment about the Morrison family celebrating Christmas lunch on Christmas Day. It was totally gratuitous and totally unnecessary and does nothing to advance public debate in this nation—absolutely nothing. It represents everything about that type of politics that Australians are absolutely fed up with.</para>
<para>Let's absolutely talk about the priority of getting Australians home. I've spoken to Australians trying to get home; I've spoken to their families. I've done everything in my office to facilitate that. I actually give my congratulations to our staff and personnel within DFAT with respect to everything they've done in response to this one-in-100-year pandemic. I think they have been extraordinary, in very difficult cases and in very extreme circumstances. Let us not forget that Melbourne international airport, our second-largest international airport in this country, has been closed for months and months and months because of the debacle in Victoria. But you never hear that mentioned. You never hear that mentioned on the other side. You don't hear any mention of the impact that has had in terms of logistics for bringing Australians home. I wish all my fellow Australians well as we lead up to Christmas and hope as many of them get home as possible. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think it's a bit unfair today that we're hearing the government try to blame the opposition for trying to raise what I think is a very valid point, which is: why did the government go out publicly and make the promise that they would be bringing all these Aussies home? Then they tried to, quite frankly, slur and put words in Senator Keneally's mouth that somehow it was her fault for raising this as a matter of importance today. I mean, come on! If we want to start to talk about the facts, Senator Keneally has been right from day one in setting the record straight. Why was it that the Prime Minister promised families and gave them hope that they would have their loved ones in Australia around the kitchen table by Christmas? That's not going to happen for 40,000 Australians, and we know that. The attitude from government senators today has been quite disappointing—in fact, it's been very dismissive and has lacked any acknowledgement that there is a problem. Is this the standard we have to accept going into Christmas and the year 2021?</para>
<para>Senator Antic earlier on talked about facts. The fact is that DFAT released the details of 2,700 Aussies, but you don't hear that fact coming across from the government side, do you? I know that DFAT staff are doing a great job and trying their best to get everyone back home, but the reality is that there are stuff-ups on the other side, and those opposite need to acknowledge them. They can't come into this place, or into the other place, and promise that they will bring Aussies home by Christmas. I'll give you another fact: to bring all the Aussies back home by Christmas—so by Friday, so they can have their 14-day quarantine—we need 82 A380s. Unfortunately, Qantas has only 12 of them, but I'm sure the Prime Minister could pick up the phone, ring up the CEO of Qantas and say, 'Let's get at least 12 of those out right now.' Instead of sacking 2,000 workers, we could give more than 2,000 workers—thousands of other people—their jobs back. Pick up the phone to Virgin. Pick up the phone to other international carriers. I'm sure we'd get a good rate, a good discount.</para>
<para>This is the type of attitude we have to expect from the government. It's their attitude whether it's JobKeeper, JobSeeker or other government policies leading up to Christmas, and, quite frankly, it stinks. All we want is for this government to do the right thing by Australians. That's what Australians expect. I had the personal circumstance of a constituent reaching out to me. His daughter had been stuck in Scandinavia. She finally returned to Sydney only a few days ago. The point he raised with me was that she'd tried 12 times to get back to Australia. It's cost them tens of thousands of dollars. As Senator Keneally pointed out, people are having to raid their savings; in fact, I think some have even had to take money out of their superannuation accounts. This is not the type of attitude that we would expect from any government. Governments are there to help their citizens abroad in times of great need. It is why we all pay our taxes—to make sure that we have services, whether here in Australia or abroad—yet the government do not seem to care. They would rather attack Senator Keneally and others on this side for somehow wasting the Senate's time. Again, it's a very dismissive attitude.</para>
<para>In the one minute I have left I'll say that, from my point of view, we have to make sure, going forward, that there are mechanisms in place for how we go about handling the pandemic. Senator Scarr mentioned the hotel quarantine situation in my home state of Victoria. We had two passengers come off a plane in Sydney and make their way to Victoria. It sounds like the <inline font-style="italic">Ruby Princess</inline> all over again. Those opposite are happy to blame the states, because somehow it is the states that look after the borders! If that's the case, what's the point of federation? What's the point of us being in this place? This is the federal parliament. In the Constitution it is crystal clear that the federal government has responsibility for our borders. Those guys opposite have lost all control.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<para>That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Birmingham) to a question without notice asked by Senator Waters today relating to the Great Barrier Reef.</para>
<para>I asked about the really sad state of the Great Barrier Reef and a recent paper published in <inline font-style="italic">Nature</inline>, a very reputable—in fact, the top—scientific journal, that showed that, because of the mass coral bleachings, of which we've had three in the last five years, half the coral cover of the reef was bleached so badly that it died. I asked the minister, 'What is the government doing about the fact that half of the reef is dead?' because we know—scientists tell us—dead corals don't grow back. I'm afraid I didn't get a satisfactory answer. I got the same answer I've been getting for the eight years I've been asking about this in this chamber: 'We're doing a little bit. We're doing this; we're doing that.' But it doesn't change the fact that half the reef is dead from lack of serious climate action.</para>
<para>I saw the reef for the first time 30 years ago, as a 12-year-old girl. It was so powerful to see the colour and the diversity and the sheer wonder of the place, and that's stayed with me ever since. What is so sad is that my kids won't get the chance to see the reef in that state, and in fact it may be that none of the kids in this country will get the chance to see the reef at all at this rate—certainly not in 30 years time—because of the trajectory that we're on, with the weak and pathetic climate targets that this government has set.</para>
<para>We know that climate change is the biggest threat to the reef. Yes, there are other threats as well. Yes, there are water quality concerns. Yes, there are crown-of-thorns. Yes, there are shipping problems. There are all sorts of issues that we need to confront, and all of those will improve the resilience of the reef, but the biggest one is climate. The reef's own management authority clearly say that—in your government's own documents.</para>
<para>A report released last week by the International Union for Conservation of Nature, who do a three-yearly outlook of the health of World Heritage properties, of which the Great Barrier Reef is one, gave the reef the worst possible listing: it was downgraded to a critical state. That is the last warning that we are going to get before the next international meeting of the UNESCO World Heritage Committee makes a decision on the future of the reef and decides whether or not to list it on the 'in danger' list, saying the World Heritage site's in danger. The scientists would say that actually the reef belongs on that list, but the tourism industry would be decimated if the Great Barrier Reef is listed as in danger, and this government needs to do all it can to avert that potential listing. But it's not. Five years ago, we saw them waste hundreds of thousands of dollars on flying diplomats around to try and bribe other countries to not shame Australia with an 'in danger' listing. It worked for them that time, but our international borders are closed, so they can't do that sort of diplomatic lobbying, can they?</para>
<para>I don't know what lobbying they will do between now and when the World Heritage Committee meets, but what they clearly need to do, and what all of the scientists and relevant bodies are telling them they need to do, is to act on climate. They need strong 2030 targets. We need an actual climate plan, not just to save the reef but to save our future economy, provide jobs for future generations, save agriculture and save the Murray-Darling area. It underpins everything. Yet this government just is not engaging. They are hostage to the dinosaur denialists on their back bench. They're hostage to the donations that they get from the fossil fuel sector. They're lured by the promise of well-paid lobbying jobs in that same fossil fuel sector once they leave politics. Meanwhile, half the reef's dead.</para>
<para>It's not good enough that you've got a pathetically weak, underfunded 2050 reef plan which doesn't plan your way out of anything and certainly doesn't address the climate crisis. It's underfunded to orders of magnitude, it barely mentions climate—in fact, the first draft didn't mention it at all—and it's been routinely criticised for not being strong enough. The fact is that it's not turning around the trajectory for the health of the reef. We've got this one last chance. This is one of the seven natural wonders of the world. We don't have the right to write its death warrant. When half of it has already gone, this government must listen to the science, adopt strong 2030 emissions reduction targets and do what's necessary to give the reef any chance of survival. Please, please listen to the scientists.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>CONDOLENCES</title>
        <page.no>41</page.no>
        <type>CONDOLENCES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Madigan, Mr John Joseph</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators, on 25 August I informed the Senate of the death, on 16 June 2020, of John Joseph Madigan, a senator for the state of Victoria from 2011 to 2016. In a somewhat broken year, there had been some delay until we could address this. I would like to welcome his family, who are attending in the chamber today, who are now able to attend due to the lifting of travel restrictions on our home state of Victoria. I call the Leader of the Government in the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate records its deep regret at the death, on 16 June 2020, of Mr John Joseph Madigan, former Senator for Victoria, places on record its appreciation for his service to the Parliament and the nation, and tenders its sympathy to his family in their bereavement.</para></quote>
<para>Earlier this year I, along with other senators, was shocked and saddened to learn of the passing of former senator John Madigan. Elected as the first senator for the Democratic Labor Party in 37 years, John was a humble and down-to-earth blacksmith and boilermaker from Ballarat who fought to improve the lives of average Australians.</para>
<para>Born on 21 July 1966 in Melbourne, John was one of four children to John and Patricia Madigan. Growing up in the Melbourne suburbs, John's interest in the blacksmith trade started at an early age. He would reminisce that at around age eight or nine, during his paper round in the suburb of Caulfield, he would stop and watch Bernie Dingle, a local coach builder, wheelwright, blacksmith and horseshoer, at work. Mesmerised by what he saw, John would return to watch night after night. The flying of the sparks intrigued young John, who, recognising that coach building, wheelwrighting and blacksmithing were dying trades, turned his attention to welding and boilermaking instead. His fascination with the trade led him to Newport TAFE, where he undertook an apprenticeship in structural steel fabrication. From Victorian Railways to his own blacksmith's forge at Hepburn Springs, in the Victorian Central Highlands, John spent 28 years working as a blacksmith and boilermaker.</para>
<para>Becoming a politician was not something that was on John's list of things to do. But, during his childhood, politics was never too far away. He grew up in what he called a DLP family. As a young boy he handed out how-to-vote cards for the DLP. In 2006 John became a member of the DLP. A few years later, after being persuaded by DLP old believers and his wife, Teresa, he decided to run as a Senate candidate in the 2010 federal election. It is safe to say that John's election to the Senate in 2010 came as a surprise to many. He joked that at 11 pm on election night, when the ABC's Antony Green announced, 'We appear to have a DLP senator', many would have been searching the internet for a reference to this 'new and obscure group'. The DLP was, of course, far from being new or obscure.</para>
<para>In July 2011 John entered this chamber as the first DLP senator since 1974. He referred to himself as 'the most outside of outsiders—a tradesman and a member for the DLP, an oddity and a leper'. They were his words. But he was a strong supporter of the manufacturing sector, true to his values and a voice for Australian workers and farmers in his community.</para>
<para>Throughout his time in the Senate, John remained connected to his original trade as a blacksmith and boilermaker. He would load up one of his many beloved one-tonne utes with his portable forge and would give blacksmithing demonstrations at primary schools across Victoria. His was perhaps one of the most practical examples of constituent and electorate engagement that any member of this place has ever given in reaching out to schools and communities. It was a lot of work but John gained enormous satisfaction from connecting, particularly with young people. Many people, he said, would laugh at this and ask: 'What's the point? Blacksmithing is a dead craft.' To this, John responded: 'But that's not the point. I do it because I hope it gives young people hope. It's about showing them they can do practical stuff with their hands. It's about engaging with our next generation of community leaders.'</para>
<para>I have particularly fond memories of spending a day with John in rural Victoria around his beloved Ballarat, of visiting a local school and seeing a program designed to engage young people in trades and the passionate conversations had with John about those issues. We travelled on to visit Ballarat business Gekko Systems together, and we talked about the engineering processes and manufacturing opportunities that a company like that was delivering in supplying equipment to mineral-processing businesses and the policies necessary to support further manufacturing activity.</para>
<para>John, indeed, started the Australian Manufacturing and Farming Program to help narrow the divide between politicians and working Australians. His advocacy for them to me and the trip that he took me on were examples of his willingness to bridge those gaps wherever he could. The aim of the program was to give politicians the opportunity to visit factories and farms and to get a better understanding of our industries and the lives of those who worked there. He launched the program in late 2011 with former senator Nick Xenophon and the Hon. Bob Katter MP—'the three amigos', as Bob would often refer to them.</para>
<para>In 2015, during an appearance on the ABC's <inline font-style="italic">Q+A</inline> program, John referred, in his passionate argument for Australian manufacturing, to submarines as being 'the spaceships of the sea'. This reference gave John an almost cultish following for a period of time, for those who may recall the various images and, indeed, I think even T-shirts that that reference spawned. In 2015, after troubles within the DLP, John decided to start his own political party, John Madigan's Manufacturing and Farming Party. However, it would last only briefly, until the 2016 election, when, after six years in this place, John would retire from politics.</para>
<para>During his time in the Senate, John was committed to advocating for those Australians who felt their voice had been lost. Known for his determination to do the right thing, John stood for what he believed in, no matter what it cost him personally. When asked what he wanted to achieve during his time in parliament, John said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">All I worry about at the end of the day is being true to myself, true to my family and friends and putting my head on the pillow at night. And when I leave parliament, whenever that may be, that I will walk out with my friends, my family and my faith intact.</para></quote>
<para>John achieved that. Faith was incredibly important to John. He was a devout Catholic whose faith inspired others to be better and to do better.</para>
<para>It is a tragedy that, at the age of 53, John was taken from us and particularly from his loved ones far too soon, after a battle with cancer. He leaves his wife, Teresa, and two children, Lucy and Jack, who, along with his mother-in-law, Carmel, are here with us today to pay tribute and to celebrate John's life and achievements. We thank you for doing so. We thank you for the patience in waiting to be able to be here in this troubled year.</para>
<para>On behalf of the Australian government and the Australian Senate, I extend to you, John's loved ones, and all those who cared for him, our sincerest condolences and gratitude for sharing him with the nation and with us.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise on behalf of the opposition to express our condolences following the passing of John Joseph Madigan, a former senator who passed away so young, at 53. I start by conveying, and on behalf of the opposition, my personal condolences and sympathies to his family and friends, and I welcome the members of his family who are here today with us.</para>
<para>I don't think John Madigan would mind me saying that he reminded us of a different time—a blacksmith by trade who represented the Democratic Labor Party in this place, a party that had risen to prominence under the guidance of activist Bob Santamaria in the 1950s and had lost its last Senate seat in 1974. I hadn't even arrived in Australia. Yet Mr Madigan served in this Senate in the second decade of the 21st century. He did so grounded in the values that had endured from his early life and that had been borne out in his career, and from these he never wavered.</para>
<para>His family said in a statement following his death:</para>
<quote><para class="block">He was a generous and compassionate man who gave his life to the greater good and had great faith in the people of Australia. He considered his time in Parliament a privilege and he sought always to discharge his duty to all Victorians, regardless of their political persuasion.</para></quote>
<para>In addition to this generosity and compassion, John Madigan showed great respect to others—respect to colleagues, even when we disagreed, and respect to this institution. That was something I appreciated in him greatly, even on those occasions when we were not in agreement.</para>
<para>John Madigan did not adopt the DLP; he was born into it. He grew up in a loyal DLP family in Melbourne and he joined the youth group run by BA Santamaria. Prior to his entry into the parliament, Mr Madigan completed an apprenticeship in structural steel fabrication and worked as a blacksmith and boilermaker from 1983 to 2011. As my colleague Senator Birmingham said, this was a choice of trade that came about after being fascinated by a local blacksmith in his youth. He undertook his apprenticeship and then worked for a decade in Victorian Railways, where he was also a proud member of the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union, or the metalworkers as we would colloquially call it. Following this, he relocated to the town of Hepburn Springs, in the Victorian Central Highlands, and there he set up his own business in the same trade. He lived there with his wife, Teresa, and their children, Lucy and Jack, who are here with us today. It's also where he passed away.</para>
<para>Before his election, John Madigan held senior leadership roles inside the DLP. He was vice president of the state branch in Victoria from 2008 to 2009, and then its president from 2009. In the same year, he also became vice president of the federal DLP. John Madigan served one term as a senator for Victoria. He was elected in 2010, commenced office in July 2011, and was then defeated at the general election in 2016. Of the re-emergence of his party in federal politics, he joked that it had been 'a long time between drinks'. As a teetotaller himself, I suppose he had the patience to bide his time.</para>
<para>From the outset, John Madigan sought to give a voice to the workers, families, farmers and small businesses with whom he engaged. He felt many had been alienated by decisions of successive governments in the opening up of the Australian economy to the world. In this vein, John Madigan's commitment to manufacturing was a constant theme throughout his time in the Senate. He consistently returned to it, grounded in his own personal experience. He argued, 'The great economies of the world have strong manufacturing bases.' He wanted to see government doing more—much more—to support and invest in Australian manufacturing.</para>
<para>This is a principle that we in the Australian Labor Party agree with, although at times we would differ from former Senator Madigan on how this might be achieved. He advocated for the re-establishment of worker and farmer cooperatives and for strengthening regional banks and credit unions as a first step in revitalising regional Australia, accompanied by a commitment to decentralising our industries and the public sector. One area of local manufacturing about which he was particularly passionate was shipbuilding. I recall him, in 2015, asking questions of the then deputy leader of government in this place, former Senator Brandis, about the failure of the Abbott government to commit to the development of our local shipbuilding industry through a local build of Australia's future submarines. When asking former Senator Brandis whether he would also commit to purchasing an Australian made T-shirt he was holding in support of Australian manufacturing, jobs and charities, Mr Madigan made the following comment:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Minister, two of the things I believe in are that a country is what a country makes and that submarines are spaceships for the ocean.</para></quote>
<para>Not only was 'submarines are spaceships for the ocean' perhaps his most memorable quote in his time as a senator—the slogan first came to light in an episode of <inline font-style="italic">Q&A</inline> earlier in the year and even made it onto T-shirts themselves—but this statement went to the heart of his philosophy. 'A country is what a country makes' was foundational to Mr Madigan's political ideology. For the record, former Senator Brandis replied that he would proudly advocate for Australian industry, including by wearing such a fetching garment. But I don't think he followed through on that commitment.</para>
<para>Mr Madigan was also a vociferous opponent of free trade. This was something on which he and I were out of step, but I am prepared to acknowledge that on this he had views that were not completely friendless within the Australian Labor Party. Whilst I didn't agree with his views on these issues, I always respected that he wanted the same outcome that I also sought: a fair and prosperous life for working Australians.</para>
<para>His commitment to fairness went beyond the material conditions of working people and included refugees who sought asylum in this country, as well as multicultural communities who were discriminated against. So, whilst he was an economic nationalist, he did not sound a jingoistic or racist bell.</para>
<para>Despite being a member of the crossbench, for whom committee positions are harder to come by, John Madigan served on many committees, including the Joint Statutory Committee on Corporations and Financial Services, and chaired the perhaps very famous Senate Select Committee on Wind Turbines. His sincerity and passion for those who found his committee to be an important outlet for their grievances was not doubted.</para>
<para>Mr Madigan finished his service as an independent senator, having fallen out with others in the DLP in 2014 and, as Senator Birmingham said, forming his own political party, launching the John Madigan Manufacturing and Farming Party, through which he sought to tap into the 'increasing discontent among voters, particularly in rural and regional areas, about the mainstream parties'. He sought to give greater prominence to farmers and manufacturers as the backbone of the Australian economy. This echoed the commitments he made in his first speech, when he spoke of his desire to represent 'Australians who feel that they have lost their voice and that no politician from either side of the fence could give a damn'—to use his words—'about their future or the future of their families and communities'. However, this new political venture wasn't sufficient to return him in the 2016 election, and there his journey as an elected member of the Australian parliament ended. I understand that, after briefly joining the Country Party, he was recently welcomed back into the DLP, which seems fitting for the prominent role it played in his upbringing and his political career.</para>
<para>John Joseph Madigan was a man of strong convictions, and this meant we didn't always agree. On issues from trade policy to marriage equality, we would find ourselves on opposite sides of the argument. But, as I acknowledged in the debate on the Marriage Act Amendment (Recognition of Foreign Marriages for Same-Sex Couples) Bill in 2013, Mr Madigan contributed his views in a respectful way.</para>
<para>Following his passing, his son, Jack Madigan, sent me a moving note, sharing his own and his father's reflections, and I want to thank Jack. At a time of his own grieving, it was a distinctly generous act and it displayed a dignity and kindness that would have made his father proud.</para>
<para>John Joseph Madigan was a genuine man. He was a decent man and he was an authentic man, and, perhaps most of all, he was true to himself, which is the aspiration all of us in this place should have. So I again on behalf of the opposition express my sympathy and condolences, following his passing, to his family and friends.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to offer the Australian Greens' condolences to John Madigan's family and, in particular, his wife, Teresa; and his children, Lucy and Jack. I think John, in this place, created a wonderful opportunity for many of us who worked with him to confront some of our own ideas on issues and talk about ways in which we could find a common connection. I was going to reference the quote about submarines being 'the spaceships of the ocean,' as Senator Birmingham and Senator Wong have. While that one may have made it onto T-shirts, the phrase that I often heard John say in the work that I did with him was 'but Jesus was a refugee'. Over and over again, in the work that we did collectively to find a fairer and more compassionate approach to refugees in this country, John was steadfast in his conviction about compassion and in his faith. He would often say: 'Don't forget, Sarah; Jesus was a refugee.'</para>
<para>His ability to listen, to take stock of advice and then to very calmly put his position—whether it was in support of or in opposition to the person he was speaking or negotiating with—is, I think, testament to his strength of character. And there were many, many issues that John Madigan and I disagreed on, from reproductive rights to marriage equality and many others. But we found a common goal when it came to immigration policy and human rights. We often talked about the issues of Tibet. We often talked about the issues of refugees and asylum seekers and would find common ground on which we could work together.</para>
<para>Both Senator Wong and Senator Birmingham have referenced his absolute commitment to the manufacturing sector and the passion that he had for Australia to make things again. I think he was ahead of his time in many ways in relation to those issues, while harking back to the past and still being very clear in saying that there was a massive gap here in Australia and we had to get onto it. I think this year in particular has proven that perhaps, if we'd taken a bit more advice from John, we would have been making a few more things here in the midst of this COVID pandemic.</para>
<para>This chamber and this workplace force us to be oppositional with each other. It is the battle of ideas. It is where we have the contest of policy and where we have passionate debates about our convictions. All of my engagements with John Madigan were respectful, thoughtful and honest. John was no pretender; he was a real person. What he said was what he'd do, and what you saw was what you'd get. Sometimes, in this crazy world of politics, that is indeed incredibly refreshing. I would often find myself sitting in John's office talking about a particular motion or amendment that was coming up, and I was struck by his incredible calmness in dealing with things. Particularly in a period like this, at the end of a sitting period, when the list of bills was stacking up and the government was threatening gags and extended sitting hours, you'd walk into John's office and it was always dark—the lights were always down—and there was an instant calmness. Nothing seemed to throw him into a tizz, as we all know can often happen in this place, particularly when the pressure is on. Sometimes it was nice just to pop into his office and have a bit of a breather. I always appreciated the time he gave me and many others in this place to explain to him the position that we were coming from and the reasons that we were asking for his support. As I said, he was always respectful. In fact, he was nothing but a gentleman in this place, and I think that everyone would accept that. He didn't tolerate bad behaviour and, if he thought you had not behaved well, he'd say it and he'd say it to your face pretty bluntly. I always appreciated that.</para>
<para>His former staff member Chloe Preston still speaks very fondly of John. We've had a number of chats about the time that she worked in his office. She now works for Senator Whish-Wilson, so I think some of those conversations about fair and free trade have probably flowed through. I know Chloe is not here today, but she was incredibly saddened by John's passing. I want his family to know that she thought that he was a wonderful boss and she learnt a lot from him. Again, I extend the condolences of the Greens and my personal condolences to John's family.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I stand on behalf of the National Party to offer our condolences and sincere sympathies to Teresa, Lucy and Jack on the passing of their much-loved husband and father, former senator John Madigan. Very few people who pass through this place manage to do so without attracting a few enemies, but not John Madigan. It's been acknowledged here today—and you've heard from the raft and range of political ideologies—that John was a very fine representative for our home state of Victoria. He was a hardworking, decent man who always put service above self. If only we could all aspire to live that reality in our work as senators.</para>
<para>John won the sixth and last Victorian Senate seat at the 2010 federal election, becoming the first DLP senator to serve in more than three decades. He was among three rookie Victorian senators who took office on 1 July 2011. The others were former Greens Senator Di Natale and myself. I remember the evening of John's maiden speech in the evening—former Senator Edwards and I warmed the crowd up in the afternoon. John spoke about his work forging pinch-bars for Munro Engineering's post drivers, and he spoke of Australia's antidumping policy, Australian jobs, the economy and rebuilding our industry. He did that in 2011. How realistic and pertinent are those themes to us in the post-COVID-19 recovery era that we're entering! They are all issues of significance. I recall one occasion on which John rightly said in this place:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The strength of our manufacturing sector is directly related to the strength of our jobs market.</para></quote>
<para>It could have been Black Jack McEwen uttering those words, and it's obviously a view that we in the Nationals share. If someone has a job, they have a sense of self-worth and they can provide for their family and contribute to their broader community. Senator Madigan made a lot of sense at the time—as do most, I might say, who hail from regional Victoria.</para>
<para>In April 2016, late in the evening during the adjournment debate, John spoke passionately about the impact that the Murray-Darling Basin Plan was having on farming communities, particularly in North Central Victoria. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">…the Murray Darling Basin Plan is one of the largest negative, man-made impactors on our farming communities in the history of our country.</para></quote>
<para>He said that our basin communities in Australia were 'on the precipice of a national water crisis'. How very true.</para>
<para>John was a person who was prepared to back up his words with action. In 2015 he set up John Madigan's Manufacturing and Farming Party. As someone elected to represent a party of farmers and entrepreneurs, leading rural and regional manufacturing, this was a significant milestone in John's political career. On many issues, as others have mentioned, amongst them decentralisation, banking issues and the like, Senator Madigan and the Nationals were on the same page, particularly in our shared passion for agriculture and manufacturing. He always spoke about the importance of trades and the fact that Australian manufacturing was not on its knees. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we need to work towards enhancing the competitive advantage of Australian industry and not allow other countries to benefit at our expense through us supplying them with cheap energy at the expense of our manufacturers and food processors.</para></quote>
<para>I recall that speech because he spoke of manufacturing businesses in places like Wodonga—Wilson Transformer Company and Seeley, for instance—and talked about the Australian Manufacturing and Farming Program industry showcase at Wodonga TAFE, and of a 'manufacturing meets parliament' event. I think we also shared important views around regional media and the role of the ABC in regional communities—that we needed the ABC to have not just a regional presence but a regional voice in their city boardrooms.</para>
<para>John and the Nationals were on the same page when it came to sticking up for our great, efficient, clean, green food producers. He was one of the great advocates and champions of buying local, buying Australian and supporting local manufacturing and local producers. He spoke very, very strongly during the debate on food labelling in March 2015. In fact, during that very debate my Nationals colleague, and deputy leader, Senator Canavan paid tribute to John's advocacy for better food labelling to benefit Australia's farm sector.</para>
<para>To my class of 2010 colleague former Senator John Madigan: you made a valuable contribution to our nation. The National Party in the Senate was honoured to have worked with you. I know there are former senators from our party—Senators O'Sullivan and Wacka Williams in particular—who really enjoyed going into battle with John on a variety of issues that I'm sure my colleagues will touch on. We're very proud to acknowledge an honest, hardworking blacksmith from Hepburn Springs who stood up for manufacturing, farming and family in regional Australia. Our condolences to his family and friends. Vale John.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to briefly associate myself with the very fine words that have been put on the record today in this chamber in relation to John Madigan. I offer my condolences to his family, particularly Teresa, Lucy, Jack and Carmel, and to other loved ones who miss John Madigan.</para>
<para>We've heard a lot about John Madigan being a man who represented another time in some ways, as Senator Wong said. I think that she meant that in a very good way in terms of some of the values he represented and some of the issues he stood up for. I won't go over those things, except to say that the DLP has been a very significant part of Australian political history. Of course, John will forever have the legacy as someone who, for at least a period of time, resurrected the DLP, as has been mentioned, many years after it was thought that they would never grace this place.</para>
<para>Apart from reflecting on John's background as a blacksmith and boilermaker, which has been done, I want to deliver a bit more of a personal message to his family about the time in which I got to know him and the character I saw. John was a man who loved his family, loved his country, loved his community and loved his state. He was a man of deep personal faith and conviction, and he was prepared to stand up for those personal convictions, even when they were unpopular, and he was prepared to advocate for them. He was hardworking, authentic, honest, compassionate and decent. 'A gentleman' sums him up. He was a good man. Those are the legacy items that his family can be most proud of. All of the other things he achieved in his extensive career, both prepolitics and in this place, it is his fundamental sense of decency that I believe they can be most proud of.</para>
<para>Senator Wong mentioned his great respect for the institution of the Senate. I certainly saw that. I think that was deeply held. He and I together often used to rage against the Greens. He would have a lot of arguments with the Greens, notwithstanding that Senator Hanson-Young talked about some areas where they had a fair degree of agreement. But he would rage against the Greens. In his respect for this place I remember him in hushed tones sometimes raging in particular about a couple of senators in the Greens. He was completely shocked that they would come into this place not wearing a tie. I point again to Senator McKim, who is backing up the case. I remember him saying, 'How can they come into this place and not wear a tie?' When I would occasionally walk into this place without a tie I was always a bit sheepish and hoped John was not looking unfavourably at me, as he was at my Greens colleagues. But that respect for the institution was deeply held and it was reflected in everything he did. The way he treated people was a reflection of who he was. Whether you were on his side in an argument or you were on the opposite side, he always acted with great respect to you as an individual.</para>
<para>There is a DLP official obituary. I'll just extract a small amount. I saw this and thought it sums up a lot of what John stood for. The DLP official obituary from Stephen Campbell says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">John stood up for the unborn child, the unemployed, the refugee. The little guy, in every sense, was John's major concern.</para></quote>
<para>I say to the Senate and to his family that that will forever be his legacy. I hope that in coming years the family will be able to reflect on that enduring legacy. On our nation's behalf I thank them for his service to our country and to this chamber. May he rest in peace.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 16 June this year Australia lost one of its quintessential sons, a family man, a hard worker, a man of faith, a man of values—of timeless values, might I add—and a man of courage. John Joseph Madigan, a Victorian senator for too short a period, was all those things and a lot more. With former Senator Madigan, what you saw was what you got: sincerity, believability and a desire to be a genuine servant leader within his community. There were no manoeuvrings or duplicitous agendas for John. He either agreed or disagreed with a general proposition at stake; he was willing to talk and accommodate on the mechanics, but not on the fundamental principles.</para>
<para>Australian democracy should celebrate the fact that we had Senator Madigan grace the Senate. The blacksmith from Hepburn Springs came to the Senate and gave voice and expression to shared Australian values. Starting as an apprentice with Victorian Railways and a proud member of his union, he learned in the university of life, bringing an earthy and realistic understanding of social justice and the requirements and expectations of our fellow Australians from government as it developed public policy. Be it championing the sanctity of human life, manufacturing sustainability in Australia or concerns about China's human rights record, Senator Madigan was across the issues. His approach to his new-found and unexpected role as a senator was best summed up by him in his first speech. He said: 'We are the representatives of the Australian people, not their masters.' For Senator Madigan, that statement was not just words; it was meant with deep conviction, as he conducted himself accordingly.</para>
<para>Senator Madigan was the type of senator who had the potential of giving the labour movement a good name. I observed that Senator Madigan's seat in the Senate was one that had been previously occupied by Senator Harradine. He was by instinct a Labor man. Senator Madigan did tell us, 'I have often said that the best government for Australian is a good Labor government, and the worst is a bad Labor government.' As can be imagined, I agreed with him 50 per cent of the time!</para>
<para>I first met Senator-elect Madigan in 2010 in an office in Melbourne, as tired as I am now, with Senator Madigan in work clothes, using someone's office where the senator-elect had quoted a blacksmithing job and was discussing details. We used their coffee facilities to have a chat. His hands were callused, like the hands of all those who work so hard to build and keep our country going. I last spoke with him to discuss what, if any, protocols applied for his funeral—knowing his life was coming to an end. Between his departure from the Senate and his departure from this life, I had the pleasure of catching up with him for a coffee in Ballarat a couple of times with his family. There was also a substantial number of telephone calls—always genuine, always concerned, always offering insights and suggestions.</para>
<para>To his widow and children: some of us know the journey you've been through—the shock diagnosis, the battle to stay with loved ones, and yet the assurance of knowing a better place awaits. Whilst the Madigan family are listening from the splendour of the presidential gallery in this place, they know that their husband and father, who was an excellent servant of the people of Victoria, is listening from a gallery of exceptionally greater glory than here. To Mrs Madigan, Teresa; Lucy and Jack; and Carmel: thanks for lending John Joseph Madigan, your father, your husband, your son-in-law, to the service of this nation. He did himself and you proud in his service. May he rest in peace, and my condolences to you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too would like to make some brief remarks in honouring the service of Senator John Madigan and pay my condolences to his family and friends. Whenever John was going to leave us from this earth it was going to be too soon, especially given his contribution to many—his family and friends and others. His young age has meant that it has been far, far too soon for us. He was an enormously generous and compassionate man.</para>
<para>I only served with John for around a year in this Senate. I got to know him a little during a few inquiries and I was struck by how much work he did in his own community, with his church, and how much his strong faith informed him to be so generous and compassionate to others, no matter what their background. He did a stellar amount of work with young people, particularly in getting them interested in trades and other ventures. He helped overseas, I believe, with charity. His contributions to this country and to his community will probably remain unrecognised in public view because they were hidden from the normal political processes. It will be those people who will feel the loss of John more than anyone else, but his passing has also been a great loss to the political fabric of this nation.</para>
<para>John has gone too soon in political terms as well because, in some respects, the time has shifted now to suit John's principles and values. Some have remarked here that he was a reminder of a previous time, or a previous generation, in Australia. I actually think he was perhaps a harbinger of a renewed emphasis on the need for this country to return to cherishing its wealth-producing industries of agriculture, of manufacturing, of mining. John was sometimes a lone champion of those sectors, a lone voice for many who did not have someone to speak for them in this parliament. That was obviously informed by John's own background as someone who worked with his hands and who knew what was like to feel the pride of making something of worth and value to others with your own hands. He wanted an Australia that did not forget the importance of actually making things so that we can provide a service to others in our own community and to the world and, of course, also be in a position where we can build the products to defend ourselves and protect our independence, like the spaceships of the ocean, the submarines—another example where John was well ahead of his time. We are now building submarines in Adelaide and now everyone is talking about manufacturing. John was sometimes a lone voice on that particular cause a few years ago.</para>
<para>John also took up unpopular causes in other areas as well. He was a champion of the unborn, and I want to recognise the efforts he made in this chamber to bring forward legislation to protect those rights. Again, it was something he was criticised for but, in his own humble and softly spoken way, he would proceed on with his own principles and convictions on those matters. His passing is a great loss for us in this chamber on those causes as well.</para>
<para>I got to know John best when he chaired the Senate committee on wind farms, particularly their impact on local communities. John was an extremely grassroots politician. Being an engineer, he probably knew more about the technicalities of renewable energy than anybody else. But what most interested John was not the mechanics of the wind turbine but the impacts on human beings and their families of such industrial developments. So, during this committee inquiry, we actually went and spent a number of days going to people's own homes. I don't think I have been to a Senate committee inquiry where we have done the same sort of outreach. We went to people's homes, we went to their bedrooms—with their permission, obviously—and saw how closely they had to sleep to very large, noisy things. We heard their stories firsthand around their kitchen tables about how they were kept awake at night. Some people had sold their own homes or moved just to get away. His tireless work bringing attention to that issue has left the legacy of the National Wind Farm Commissioner, who I think is doing a good job to represent the interests of those who are impacted by very large developments and they, more than anyone else, deserve to have their views heard, listened to and acted upon.</para>
<para>As I said, John's passing is a great loss for us because he was a voice for those who often don't have a voice. It will be up to us now, those of us who share many of his philosophies and values, to amplify his messages—which have become more relevant in recent years—in the years to come. Despite John's passing, I hope there is some assurance that his legacy, his example, and his pioneering efforts in these fields will continue to be built upon in this place, thanks to his efforts. My great condolences go to all his family members. I share with Senator Abetz the strong view that Senator Madigan is looking down upon these proceedings, and I hope we can live up to his example and commitment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to pay my condolences on the passing of John Joseph Madigan, who, sadly, left us at the very young age of 53. As a female, conservative politician in this place and having had an office close to John's, I got the opportunity to get to know him quite well and speak to him on quite a number of occasions about the things that were important to both of us. As I reflected on his maiden speech of 25 August 2011, it was about values of family and faith. Others have spoken about different parts and different things that he said during his maiden speech, but the thing that I really took from that speech was: 'This is a man whose background was about hard work—commitment, hard work and, most importantly, commitment to his family and to his faith.' Those values and beliefs underpinned what John did in this place.</para>
<para>We've talked about manufacturing, and, of course, in his maiden speech, he did talk about BlueScope. As a senator based in the Illawarra, BlueScope is very important in Australia, and Australian steelmaking is very important. Of course, we had occasion to discuss those things. In an article in <inline font-style="italic">The Canberra Times</inline> following his passing, he's referred to as a:</para>
<quote><para class="block">"Blacksmith, teetotaller, Democratic Labour Party Senator: he's a throwback to another generation, a time when things were done differently," …</para></quote>
<para>It wasn't that things were done differently; it was a set of values and beliefs that John shared with us—that sense of family values and beliefs that I think are still very important to the silent majority in this country and which John so ably represented. He was, as others have said, respectful, a good listener. His quiet manner demonstrated his deep understanding of how our activities here affect the daily lives of Australian families.</para>
<para>But what I do want to say in relation to John, particularly when we talk about values and beliefs—and we have had conversations in recent times about politicians and conduct—is that John always conducted himself with the utmost respect to everybody. He was, as Senator Hanson-Young has said, a true gentleman. As politicians, I think it's very important that we live up to the values and beliefs that we tell the electorate we hold and that we promise to represent. There should be no difference between who we are in Canberra and the values and beliefs that we pronounce to our constituents and to the people that put us here. I know that John embodied very much the sentiment that he was a politician that said what he meant and meant what he said. He was a politician who abided by the courage of his convictions. I know that, in this place, that is often very, very difficult. But, for John, it was who he was, and that's what I admired most about him. Often, when you are honest and forthright and you do stand up for and have the courage of your own convictions, it is and can be a very, very difficult time and it is a difficult place to be. But, if you do have the strength of courage, as John did, to do that, then it does make it very easy. Therefore, he maintained the faith and trust that the electorate had placed in him, and I think that that is one of the things that we will very much remember about him.</para>
<para>In conclusion, Teresa, you; your children, Lucy and Jack; Carmel; and the rest of your family should be very proud of his service both here and to his community both before and after his time in this place. He was a decent, honest man, a man of enormous integrity. To Jack and Lucy, your father may not have been here a long time, but the values of family and faith that he espoused are the values and beliefs that live on in the silent majority in this country. Vale John Joseph Madigan.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too am very proud to rise to pay tribute to the late John Madigan. John was very proud of his blacksmith heritage. As we've heard in this condolence motion, he was humble and he was a gentleman. He led the Democratic Labor Party back from the wilderness, winning the sixth Senate spot at the 2010 federal election. He was the first DLP senator to be elected since the defeat of Frank 'vote Mac back' McManus and Jack Little in 1974.</para>
<para>In his first speech, John Madigan himself quoted the expression 'It's been a long time between drinks.' He was very proud of his part in the re-emergence of the Democratic Labor Party, though, of course, as we know, he quit the party in 2014 to start his own party, John Madigan's Manufacturing and Farming Party. John spoke of his path to this place when only 12 months prior he was forging pinch-bars for Munro Engineering's post drivers. He paid tribute to the blacksmiths, foundry men and wheelwrights of his childhood for revealing the skills and wonders of their craft to a wide-eyed young lad.</para>
<para>I actually thought of John Madigan recently when I was at Sovereign Hill in Ballarat for the launch of their master plan, not far from where John died, in Hepburn Springs. With the support of some $10 million from the Morrison government, a grant to Sovereign Hill is establishing a centre for rare arts and forgotten trades, the craft centre, which will be a major piece of the first stage of its 20-year master plan. Of course, this celebrates the trades which John held so dear.</para>
<para>John was concerned about a lot of things in his community, particularly drugs. He said, and made this very clear over and over again, that they were a scourge of our society, causing devastation to families and individuals and causing untold harm to our economy and our industries. John was passionate about manufacturing and farming, and, along with Bob Katter MP and former senator Nick Xenophon, he formed what he described as the non-partisan Australian Manufacturing and Farming Program. It was in this context that I had some dealings with John, when I was formerly the member for Corangamite. He was really focused on helping senators and members to gain a better appreciation for the men and women whose hard work keeps this nation running.</para>
<para>Former Prime Minister Tony Abbott described John as a very decent man, with an old-fashioned sense of courtesy and respect. He served just one six-year term in the Senate, being defeated at the 2016 general election, but he made a very big impact, made a very significant contribution and clearly, from what we have seen in this debate today, is remembered very fondly around the corridors of this parliament.</para>
<para>I also want to convey my sincere condolences to John's wife, Teresa, and his children, Lucy and Jack, who paid tribute to their husband and father, saying, 'He was a generous and compassionate man who gave his life to the greater good and had great faith in the people of Australia.' John died way too young, at the age of just 53. My dad died at 58, so I know, Lucy and Jack, it will leave a very big hole in your hearts and in your lives to have lost your dad at such a young age. All of Australia has certainly a lost a great gentleman in John Madigan. May he rest in peace.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd just like briefly to add my remarks on this condolence motion. As we've heard this afternoon, John Madigan was a man who was decent, authentic, humble and respectable. He was always a gentleman who expected the highest standard of others because he applied the highest standards in this place. He was a man who brought to this place great conviction. While he was only here for six years, his presence has been deeply felt.</para>
<para>John Madigan came to this place with another important role, and that was as a staunch defender of our Australian Constitution. I engaged with John in working to defeat the Labor government's proposal to recognise local government in the Constitution. John was part of a very, very small group of senators who argued against Labor's referendum bill, voted against Labor's referendum bill and put their names to the official 'no' case against that referendum bill. As some of you might recall, the referendum was never put. The referendum had been defeated in the court of public opinion before Kevin Rudd put himself before the people in that vote.</para>
<para>So John Madigan came to this place and made a tremendous contribution, which I think has been recognised in the remarks of so many people from across the chamber. For my part, he helped preserve the Constitution, kept true to the idea of the federal compact between the states in making this Commonwealth, and for that I know that many, many Australians will be deeply grateful. I would also add my condolences to his family on their sad loss.</para>
<para>Question agreed to, honourable senators standing in their places.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I again acknowledge John Madigan's family, who have travelled up from Ballarat to be here today, and their patience in having this matter addressed by the Senate.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>50</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator. There being none, I shall proceed to the discovery of formal business.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>50</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reporting Date</title>
            <page.no>50</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senators Carr and Stoker, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the time for the presentation of the report of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee on its inquiry into nationhood, national identity and democracy be extended to 16 February 2021.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>50</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Surveillance Legislation Amendment (Identify and Disrupt) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <a href="r6623" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Surveillance Legislation Amendment (Identify and Disrupt) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference to Committee</title>
            <page.no>50</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that the Surveillance Legislation Amendment (Identify and Disrupt) Bill 2020 gives the Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission, the Australian Federal Police and, through them, the Australian Signals Directorate extraordinary powers in respect to online activities; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) refers the Surveillance Legislation Amendment (Identify and Disrupt) Bill 2020 to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 27 March 2021.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support this motion. The Minister for Home Affairs has already written to the chair of the Parliamentary Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence and Security referring the legislation to the PJCIS as the appropriate committee in this instance.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I should say, Senators, that I've now asked attendants, because we're not closing the door, to stand in the doorway upon the bells being stopped, so keep that in mind. There'll be no sneaking in late. The question is that business of the Senate motion No. 2 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:39]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I withdraw notice of motion No. 906 standing in my name for today, relating to Australian industry capability plans.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Age of Criminal Responsibility</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>51</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Attorney-General, Senator Marise Payne, by no later than midday on Wednesday, 5 February 2021:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) all submissions received by the Council of Attorneys General's Age of Criminal Responsibility Working Group regarding raising the age of criminal responsibility;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) any reports, including interim and draft reports, from the Age of Criminal Responsibility Working Group, including recommendations, to the Council of Attorneys General regarding the age of criminal responsibility;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) any advice prepared by the Age of Criminal Responsibility Working Group to the Council of Attorneys-General regarding the age of criminal responsibility;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) any advice prepared (in the past twelve months) by the Age of Criminal Responsibility Working Group to the Attorney-General regarding the age of criminal responsibility; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) any advice, including drafts, prepared by the Attorney-General's Department regarding the age of criminal responsibility.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At its most recent meeting, on 27 July this year, the Council of Attorneys-General, CAG, discussed the progress of the Age of Criminal Responsibility Working Group to date and noted that the group identified the need for further work to occur regarding adequate processes and services for children who exhibit offending behaviour. It would not be appropriate to release working documents, including those prepared by other jurisdictions, while the process is ongoing. Ultimately, any decision to release documents once the working group is completed will be a matter for attorneys-general of all jurisdictions.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion No. 924 moved by Senator Thorpe be agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:48]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators, I will only be ringing the bells for one minute for the imminent divisions.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>52</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Economic Security</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) on average, women retire with superannuation balances 50% lower than those of men,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) 40% of older single retired women live in poverty and experience economic insecurity in retirement,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) an estimated 220,000 women miss out on a combined $125 million of superannuation contributions as they do not meet the requirement to earn $450 per month from one employer, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the Government deliberately excluded consideration of systemic problems in the superannuation system for women from the terms of reference of its retirement incomes review, despite 100 prominent Australians in senior business roles writing to the Treasurer and calling on him to do so; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Morrison Government to help women achieve equality in retirement by responding to the inequality raised in the retirement incomes review's final report and look at the systemic issues that lead to inequality between men's and women's retirement incomes.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Retirement Income Review considered the distributional impacts of the retirement income system across the population, including women. Indeed, section 3B of the report focuses entirely on gender issues. The report covers issues of adequacy, equity, cohesion and sustainability, and women were considered at each stage. Of course, Senator Bilyk would be well advised to read the report. The best way to reduce gender pay gaps in retirement is by reducing them in working life. Under this government, prior to COVID-19, there were more women in work than ever before and the gender pay gap had closed to its lowest level on record at 13.9 per cent.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the general business notice of motion No. 925, moved by Senator Bilyk, be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:53]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>31</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Green, N</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>31</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hughes, H</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Van, D</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>54</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, if, by 12.45 pm on Thursday, 10 December 2020, the National Commissioner for Defence and Veteran Suicide Prevention Bill 2020, and the National Commissioner for Defence and Veteran Suicide Prevention (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2020, have not been finally considered:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the bills be called on immediately and have precedence over all other business until concluded;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if, after 1 hour, consideration of the bills has not concluded, the questions on all remaining stages then be put without amendment or debate, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) paragraph (b) operate as limitation of debate under standing order 142.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Morrison government firmly believes that tackling this devastating issue requires an ongoing focus, ensuring we remain vigilant about the welfare of our defence and veterans communities. This is why the government has committed to passing these bills before the end of the year and believes the Senate should consider these bills properly with due process.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>One Nation supports formalising the National Commissioner for Defence and Veteran Suicide Prevention Bill 2020 that provides almost the exact powers as a royal commission. I support the appointment of Dr Bernadette Boss CSC as the interim National Commissioner and note her statutory independence from government.</para>
<para>Veterans' suicide levels in a first world country like Australia is nothing short of a national disgrace. To deliberately stymy the passing of this bill is a shameful, blood stained act of all who stand in its way. One Nation will not entertain this political stunt designed to vote down this important bill. I implore every single senator to give the National Commissioner a go for at least the next two years.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that motion No. 927, moved by Senator Lambie, be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:58]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Green, N</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hughes, H</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Van, D</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>55</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pensions and Benefits</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senators McCarthy, Urquhart, Bilyk and O'Neill, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) robodebt was an unlawful scheme, which resulted in $721 million being stolen from 373,000 individuals and that the Federal Government has agreed to a settlement which will cost taxpayers up to $1.2 billion in total making it the biggest class action in Australian legal history,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) this cost does not account for the psychological impacts that this scheme has had on thousands of Australians who were already vulnerable,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) this scheme employed income averaging and reversed the onus of proof requiring people to disprove grossly overestimated debts relating to income periods older than seven years, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) despite being warned of its illegality from its inception, it took more than three years for the Government to stop this unlawful scheme and that was only as a result of a High Court decision;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to acknowledge the failings of the robodebt scheme and the pain and anguish it unleashed on the Australian people; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) urges the Government to call a Royal Commission so those responsible can be held accountable for their actions, and stop the mistakes of robodebt from being repeated.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that motion No. 928 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:05]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Green, N</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>31</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hughes, H</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>McDonald, S</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                <name>Van, D</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Higher Education: Languages</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Walsh, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) Murdoch University has proposed to cut its Indonesian language courses in 2021,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) Latrobe University has proposed to cut its Indonesian and Hindi language courses in 2021,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) Swinburne University has proposed to cut its entire language program, including Japanese and Mandarin in 2021, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) these cuts will reduce the number of Australian university students studying Asian languages for years to come, and are a result of the Government's tertiary funding cuts;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) further notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) increasing Australia's Asia capability, including through the study of languages, is vital for Australia to engage with the Indo-Pacific region and support our economic recovery, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the study of Asian languages is important for strengthening the people-to-people links that will be critical in diversifying Australia's economic relationships in the Indo-Pacific region; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) calls on the Australian Government to take urgent steps to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) make the study of Asian languages a national priority, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) properly fund universities.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Morrison government is providing a record $18 billion for universities this year, rising to around $20 billion by 2024. Universities are autonomous institutions responsible for their own decisions. The department has not received any request to approve the closure of language courses. Our government proudly supports a multicultural Australia and encourages Australians to learn another language. Our job-ready graduates reforms will see students who study a language pay 42 per cent less and, together with the additional $298½ million in the budget for more domestic university places, will mean around 32,000 Australians will get the opportunity to go to a university next year.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor continues to bolster China's calculated takeover of Australia's prime agricultural land, critical assets and water entitlements, as well as its manipulation of governments here in Australia and worldwide. Universities respond to demand. Therefore, the cuts to Asian languages are an indication of undesirable courses, not a lack of federal government funding. I note Labor pledged $32 million to strengthen Asian languages if it won the 2019 federal election under Bill Shorten. Labor lost that election, and, therefore, lost its right to govern as patsies for the Chinese Communist regime. Labor should read Australian public sentiment towards China's current aggressive economic action and lack of dialogue with the Australian government. One Nation will not support Labor's motion to fund more Asian languages.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Universities are cutting courses and slashing jobs. The combined blows of COVID-19 and funding cuts are devastating. We should prioritise and expand education in languages and cultures, especially those in the Asia-Pacific, and reject these harsh, nonsensical cuts to language programs.</para>
<para>In its submission to the job-ready graduates bill inquiry, the Languages and Cultures Network for Australian Universities said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Successful language study involves the acquisition of both linguistic skills and cultural knowledge … the new funding system poses the risk of enforcing a language/culture divide.</para></quote>
<para>Some of the blame for these cuts must be attributed to short-sighted university management, certainly, but we should not let the government off the hook. Humanities programs were squarely the target of the so-called job-ready graduates measures. These cuts are a result of this government's juvenile hatred for humanities, and this country will suffer as a result.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that motion No. 930 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:12]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                <name>Green, N</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hughes, H</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>McDonald, S</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                <name>Van, D</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the chamber that Senators McKim, Keneally and McCarthy will also sponsor this motion. I, and also on behalf of Senators McKim, Keneally and McCarthy, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) asylum seekers Priya and Nades and their Australian-born daughters Kopika and Tharunicaa were forcibly removed from their community in Biloela, in regional Queensland, in March 2018,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the family was initially placed in detention in Melbourne but was flown to Christmas Island in August 2019 after moves to deport them to Sri Lanka were interrupted by a last-minute injunction,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) despite continued calls from members of the Biloela community for the family to be returned to the regional town, Border Force Commissioner Michael Outram told Estimates in October 2020 that the family was being held on Christmas island for their 'safety, welfare and wellbeing',</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) three of the Tamil family have had their claims for asylum denied, and the family is awaiting the outcome for their three year old daughter Tharunicaa's protection claim, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) the family has spent more than 1000 days in detention, including two Christmases on Christmas Island, separated from their supporters and their friends in Biloela; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to return the family to Biloela for Christmas, a place where they have consistent and committed community support and can live among friends while Tharunicaa's case is finalised.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia has one of the most generous humanitarian programs in the world. However, the continued success of this program is only made possible by maintaining an orderly and fair system. The Murugappan family's claims to engage Australia's protection obligations have been comprehensively assessed on a number of occasions by Home Affairs and various merits review bodies. These decisions have been appealed through the Federal Court and to the High Court. At no time has any member of the family in question been found to be owed protection. The government will never return to the failed policies of the opposition, which compromised our humanitarian program and resulted in more than 1,200 deaths at sea.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Since the entry of more than 50,000 illegal maritime arrivals during the chaotic years of the Rudd-Gillard government—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Listen to it.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>6,600 illegal economic migrants have been returned to their home countries. The individuals in question in this motion have been offered the same opportunity but instead have chosen to challenge the Australian people and our governments at a cost of roughly $10 million. The federal government has found on a number of occasions that the individuals are not refugees. I support the Minister for Home Affairs in his efforts to have these illegal maritime arrivals sent back to the safety of their Sri Lankan homeland. One Nation do not support humanitarian queue jumpers but do support those genuine refugees who come to Australia to adopt our way of life, who work and who don't try to change us as a nation. We will not support this motion.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is not granted. The question is that motion 932 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:17]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Green, N</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lambie, J</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Polley, H</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hughes, H</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>McDonald, S</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Payne, MA</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                <name>Van, D</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>59</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Amendment (Benefit to Australia) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <a href="s1283" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Amendment (Benefit to Australia) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>59</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Act 2006, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>59</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum and I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's offshore oil and gas is being given away for free, earning the federal government the <inline font-style="italic">wooden spoon</inline>, for its collection of revenue from oil and gas production.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The 150% exploration rebate introduced by the Howard government in 2004 and the 18% uplift on expenses has delivered a handful of companies $325 billion dollars in tax credits ensuring Australia will never be paid for oil and gas taken from the north west shelf.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Not only will these multinational companies have enough tax credits to never pay any income tax in Australia, but minimum wage workers will pay for all the government services on which these companies rely on to operate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chevron, ExxonMobil, Shell, BP, and ConocoPhillips are integrated oil and gas companies which means they engage in exploration, production, refinement and distribution of oil and gas. These companies started new businesses in Australia and consequently their investments have never been subject to government approval under the <inline font-style="italic">Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Act 1975 </inline>or FATA<inline font-style="italic">.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Public servants and government Ministers have been comprehensively outwitted by foreign owned multinational oil and gas companies. These companies are like chess players who that play often, and usually win against opponents who have never played.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The government will not admit we have a problem. Well I am here to tell you there is a problem, when a handful of foreign companies can export $50 billion dollars of gas a year and we get $200 million.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The legal theft of our oil and gas needs to stop.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I am proposing the first step of what will be many steps towards Australian's benefitting from their vast reserves of offshore oil and gas. It is a <inline font-style="italic">baby step</inline>, but it is a move in the right direction.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If the government cannot support this Bill, then the people of Australia will know that the government has lost the will to collect payment for our offshore oil and gas taken from the north-west shelf off the coast of Western Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If this Bill fails to gain government support the people of Australia should vote this government out at the next election and vote for a party willing to act in their interests.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">My Bill proposes to add an object clause to section 3 of the <inline font-style="italic">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Act 2006 </inline>or OPGGS<inline font-style="italic">, </inline>to ensure every part of this very important law is interpreted with the good of the Australian community in mind.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">OPGGS establishes the National Offshore Petroleum Titles Administrator or NOPTA, the National Offshore Petroleum Safety and Environmental Management Authority NOPSEMA and the Joint Authorities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This new object clause I propose is a statement of the obvious, but what is obvious to most Australians' is not obvious to NOPTA and NOPSEMA or the Minister for Resources. We need all decisions to be made with the good of the Australian community in mind.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If this object clause passes into legislation, then 30-year-old oil and gas leases with proven and probable status currently being hoarded by multinational gas giants will become available for development.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If this object clause passes into legislation then the next floating liquefied natural gas platform (FLNG), like Shell's FLNG Prelude will have a domestic gas reserve condition placed on it, because the choice of an offshore rather than onshore processing and storing facility avoids the domestic gas policy in Western Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is a tragedy that the government and Labor have not reached a bipartisan position on dealing with multinational oil and gas companies in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Who would have thought it could be so hard? These foreign companies do not vote, they do not pay corporate income- tax and they employ small numbers of people over the life of the fields. The two big parties have the same policy on immigration, climate change, free trade agreements and funding the United Nations so what stops them uniting to get payment for our oil and gas?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I hope in the debate to follow the two big parties can justify the gift of billions of dollars to multinationals, money that should have gone to education, hospitals and raising the pension.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I now want to turn back the clock to the 23rd of April 2001 when Peter Costello, then Treasurer, announced he would block Royal Dutch Shell's bid to increase its shareholding in Woodside Petroleum Ltd from 34% to 56%. All the commentators said the decision by the Treasurer would reduce future foreign investment, but they were dead wrong.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They were wrong, because Australia has abundant conventional gas close to the markets, the most ineffective gas laws in the world and a foreign investment regime which did not capture integrated oil and gas companies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Following the decision to block Royal Dutch Shell's bid, multinational gas giants invested $200 billion dollars in integrated oil and gas projects, which were not subject to foreign investment review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today these integrated oil and gas projects earn foreign owned multinationals $50 billion dollars a year in export earnings. I understand these export dollars are not profit, but these exports are profitable, because gas giants do not pay for the gas taken from Commonwealth waters. They also do not pay income tax on the profits made selling the gas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These same companies are sitting on known gas reserve licenses so they can stop others from using them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Shortly after I became a Senator, I asked the Reserve Bank 'how Australia benefits from the dominance of foreign owned multinational oil and gas companies.' They told me integrated gas projects had done a lot for the measures of investment, and GDP but little for jobs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chevron is the largest single investor in Australia, having spent about $80 billion dollars on developing its Gorgon and Wheatstone project. Most of this money was not actually spent in Australia because it involved undersea substructures made off-shore. Once the construction phase ended, very few people were employed in the following 40 years in oil and gas production. In the case of the Gorgon Project, about 350 people are employed directly or indirectly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Helpfully the Reserve Bank suggested the way Australians could benefit from trillions of dollars of Australian owned natural gas off the coast of Western Australia was to either find a job in the sector or buy shares in these companies. If Australians must buy shares in Chevron to benefit from Australian oil and gas, then the government has comprehensively failed Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia is now the only large gas producer in the world, where the international price of gas is lower than the domestic price. How did this happen? It is the result of the weakest gas laws in the world and a failure to implement a domestic gas reserve policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The government established an Inquiry into the Petroleum Resource Rent Tax in 2016, but none of the recommendations made by the Callaghan PRRT Review have been implemented. Why?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The government agreed to investor-state dispute resolution provisions in free trade agreements and now fears being dragged to an international tribunal by one or more of the gas giants claiming a change to the law is cause for compensation to be paid to them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is very frustrating the government lacks the spine to stand up for Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If this modest object clause finds its way into law, then the gas cartel will hot foot it to their lawyers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2011 Philip Morris took the government to a foreign tribunal claiming compensation in connection with tobacco plain packaging laws but we cannot live in fear of multinationals if we are to determine our own future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Productivity Commission told the government to avoid investor-state dispute settlement provisions in free trade agreements<inline font-style="italic">(1)</inline> but the government rejected the advice accepting ISDS provision in the Trans-Pacific Partnership or TPP-11. Foolishly the government did not follow New Zealand and exclude these provisions by way of side letters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2018, One Nation voted against the enabling legislation for TPP-11, but our votes made no difference because Labor voted with the government</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Instead of fixing weak laws which damage the Australian economy, the government finds itself pinned to the ground by multinationals, whose knees are pressed on the government's neck.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In this position of weakness, the government has decided not to take on the West Coast gas cartel, but instead divert attention by proposing a gas led strategy based on new gas production in Queensland.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This strategy involves the government sponsored mining in prime agricultural land, guaranteeing new production through take or pay multi-year contracts and lumping East Coast gas users with high prices.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With gas demand falling since 2014 it is inevitable taxpayers of the future will pay for gas, whether it is or is not needed- just , as the Northern Territory pays for gas it does not need from the Blacktip project.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One Nation's Senators are frustrated they cannot remove ISDS provisions from trade agreements nor can we introduce legislation to change gas tax laws, because all tax Bills must be introduced in the House of Representatives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What we can do is propose the first step in the path to fair payment for our oil and gas reserves.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Failure to support this Bill will mean both the government and Labor have sold out future generations while saddling them with paying off the COVID debts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I recommend the Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">(1)</inline>Productivity Commission Trade and Assistance Review 2014-15. Box 4.1 p.49</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>61</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>PFAS Task Force</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>61</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Senate notes that on 13 May 2020 the Senate resolved to request the following documents be tabled in the Senate on the first sitting day after 1 June 2020 by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the minutes of the last 3 meetings of the PFAS Taskforce; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the dates of each meeting of the PFAS Taskforce, commencing from the first meeting after 2015.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Senate notes that these documents have not been tabled.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Senate requires the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, to table those documents by 9.30 am on Wednesday, 9 December 2020.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Should the documents not be tabled, the Senate further resolves to require the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, to attend the Senate at 9.30 am on Thursday, 10 December 2020 to explain why the documents have not been tabled.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Any senator may move to take note of the explanation required by paragraph (4).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Any motion under paragraph (5) may be debated for no longer than 60 minutes, shall have precedence over all business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 10 minutes each.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Online Streaming Services</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the sharing of original Australian stories on our screens is an important way that we reflect a sense of community, identity and belonging in Australia,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) Australian broadcasters are required to screen original Australian content in line with the Australian content requirements overseen by the Australian Communications and Media Authority,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) online streaming services such as Netflix, Stan, Amazon and Disney+ are now extremely popular in Australia and have millions of Australian subscribers,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) online video streaming services are not subject to requirements to screen Australian-made content, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) the Minister for Communications recently announced changes to the Australian content quota system but did not extend the quotas to online streaming services; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to implement Australian content quotas for online video streaming subscription services to ensure that Australians are able to see themselves and their stories reflected on these platforms.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As an initial measure, the larger streaming video services will be asked to commence reporting to the Australian Communications and Media Authority on Australian content acquisition from the 2021 calendar year. The government has also released its media reform green paper for consultation. The green paper seeks comment on a proposal to put a minimum Australian content spend requirement on streaming video on demand services.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Customs Amendment (Banning Goods Produced By Uyghur Forced Labour) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <a href="s1284" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Amendment (Banning Goods Produced By Uyghur Forced Labour) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>62</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the Customs Act 1901, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>62</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum and I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The purpose of the <inline font-style="italic">Customs Amendment (Banning Goods Produced By Uyghur Forced Labour) Bill 2020</inline> is to ban the importation of goods from Xinjiang Province in the People's Republic of China as well as goods from other parts of China that are produced in whole or part by forced labour.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Parliament has expressed strong support for international efforts to suppress modern slavery. Consistent with that the Australian Parliament needs to take a strong stand against the well documented abuse of hundreds of thousands of Uyghur people in Xinjiang in the People's Republic of China.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It would be a grave human rights failure if Australia, under our Free Trade Agreement with China, were to turn a blind eye to profiteering from what amounts to the massive use of slave labour.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Chinese Communist regime's persecution of the Uyghur people is undeniable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">More than one million people have been rounded up and put in internment camps across Xinjiang. Mass surveillance, restrictions on free movement, and widespread persecution of the Uyghur people have been confirmed beyond doubt. Torture, other forms of gross abuse, coercion and population control have been widely reported and confirmed by credible witnesses and sources.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This terrible situation is widely recognised for what it is – nothing less than genocide.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The United States Government and the House of Representatives of the United States Congress have both acted in relation to the exploitation of detained Uyghur people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The US Government has ordered the banning of imports of cotton, clothing and computer components from four companies and a manufacturing facility in north western China because of their suspected reliance on forced labour.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The US House of Representatives has voted by an overwhelming bipartisan majority in favour of the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Bill to ban imports from China's Xinjiang region.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) has recently launched a data project mapping Xinjiang's detention system with 380 sites of suspected re-education camps, detention centres and prisons that have been built or expanded since 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In a previous research report published in March 2020 ASPI identified 83 Chinese and foreign companies, including many well-known international brands, benefiting directly or indirectly from the use of Uyghur detainees transferred to locations outside Xinjiang.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ASPI estimated that at least 80,000 Uyghurs were transferred out of Xinjiang and assigned to Chinese factories in a range of supply chains including electronics, textiles, and automotives. The report identified at least 27 factories in nine Chinese provinces that are using Uyghur labour transferred from Xinjiang.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Canadian Parliament has also gathered much credible evidence of the gross human rights violations against the Uyghur people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 20 October 2020, the Subcommittee on International Human Rights of the Canadian Parliament's Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development released its findings from a major inquiry into the human rights situation in Xinjiang.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Subcommittee's report observed that the Chinese Government's mass detention of Uyghurs is "the largest mass detention of a minority community since the Holocaust."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Subcommittee's report documents extensive and compelling evidence of gross human rights abuses including torture, extensive repression, mass surveillance and population control.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With regard to forced labour, the Subcommittee made the following observations and recommendations:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Witnesses noted that, starting in 2018, detainees from concentration camps began being transferred into different types of coercive labour, both in Xinjiang and to other regions of China, as part of a "poverty reduction" initiative. They warned that this forced labour is integrated into the supply chains of many large international corporations and contributes to the production of many products sold in Canada and other western nations. The United States of America recently issued a notice to companies warning that their supply chains potentially contain goods manufactured through the forced labour of Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims. The Government of Canada should issue to Canadian companies, whose supply chains are potentially exposed to the forced labour of Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims, a notice similar to the one issued by the Government of the United States of America for that reason. It is also important for the Government of Canada to investigate potentially problematic sources of consumer goods and to take a strong stand against the use of forced labour, particularly when it involves Canadian companies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Canadian Human Rights Subcommittee unequivocally condemned the actions of the Chinese Government and expressed the view that the actions of the Chinese Communist Party constitute genocide as laid out in the 1948<inline font-style="italic"> Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Canadian Human Rights Subcommittee further emphasised that the international community has a responsibility to protect Uyghurs under the international norm of the Responsibility to Protect, of which the objective is to ensure the international community prevents mass atrocity crimes of genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Human Rights Subcommittee of this Parliament's Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade has also received extensive submissions and testimony from members of the Uyghur diaspora in Australia and human rights organisations relating to human rights violations in Xinjiang and elsewhere in China that are entirely consistent with the findings of the Canadian inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The massive and systematic oppression of the Uyghur people by the Chinese Government is undeniable. The exploitation of detained Uyghurs as a captive labour force is clear.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If Australia is to be true to the democratic values we hold, we need to leave the Chinese Government in no doubt that its conduct is unconscionable and unacceptable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will achieve that objective through the imposition of an absolute prohibition on the importation of all goods produced or manufactured in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of the People's Republic of China, and all goods produced or manufactured in China through the use of forced labour as defined by the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code Act 1995.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 270.6 of the<inline font-style="italic"> Criminal Code </inline>definesforced labour as the condition of a person, the victim, who provides labour or services if, because of the use of coercion, threat or deception the victim would not consider himself or herself to be free to cease providing the labour or services, or to leave the place or area where the victim provides the labour or services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That definition will fully cover China's exploitation of Uyghur forced labour. The importation of any goods found to have been produced in Xinjiang, or elsewhere in China by forced labour, will then by subject to the same penalties that apply to the importation of other goods designated as prohibited imports by regulations made under the <inline font-style="italic">Customs Act 1901</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a very necessary measure that supports Australia's longstanding commitment to internationally recognised human rights.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It would be a grave failure on the part of the Australian Parliament if we do not call out and act to limit the massive abuses of human rights by the Chinese Communist regime.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That today:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the hours of meeting be midday to adjournment;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the order of government business for the remainder of the day and the routine of business from not later than 7.20 pm be consideration of the following bills only:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Improved Home Care Payment Administration No. 1) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Excise Levies Legislation Amendment (Sheep and Lamb) Bill 2020 and a related bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Investment Reform (Protecting Australia’s National Security) Bill 2020 and a related bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Radiocommunications Legislation Amendment (Reform and Modernisation) Bill 2020 and related bills</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Civil Aviation (Unmanned Aircraft Levy) Bill 2020 and a related bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) divisions may take place after 7.20 pm for the purposes of the bills only;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) if by 9.30 pm consideration of the bills has not been completed, the questions on all remaining stages be put without debate;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) paragraph (d) operate as a limitation of debate under standing order 142;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the Senate adjourn without debate after consideration of the bills, or when a motion for the adjournment is moved by a minister, whichever is the earlier.</para></quote>
<para>And I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the motion moved by Senator Birmingham be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Defence Force</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that at 8.30 am today 23 proposals were received in accordance with standing order 75. The question of which proposal would be submitted to the Senate was determined by lot. As a result, I inform the Senate that a letter from Senator Waters proposing a matter of urgency was chosen:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the government to apologise immediately to the families of the victims and create a compensation scheme, hold the military chain of command to account for their role, bring the individual perpetrators to justice and, in future, ensure there is political accountability for sending our troops to war in response to the Brereton report which alleges there were 39 murders and two instances of 'cruel treatment' carried out by Australian Special Forces soldiers and that some of the victims were children.</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times to each of the speakers in today's debate. With the concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the government to apologise immediately to the families of the victims and create a compensation scheme, hold the military chain of command to account for their role, bring the individual perpetrators to justice and, in future, ensure there is political accountability for sending our troops to war in response to the Brereton report which alleges there were 39 murders and two instances of 'cruel treatment' carried out by Australian Special Forces soldiers and that some of the victims were children.</para></quote>
<para>War is never the answer. Given the multitudes of conflicts in which we have engaged as a nation—those that have been lost, those that have been marked by their involvement in conflict, the communities that have been destroyed by pointless acts of violence—it would be understandable for many in our community to believe that the simple statement that 'War is not the answer', that it is never the answer, would be a reasonably uncontroversial thing to say. But, in this place, it is still a statement that is considered radical. Even in the aftermath of the illegal invasion of Iraq and the terribly misguided humanitarian intervention in Afghanistan—conflicts into which Australia entered at the behest of the United States and collectively constituted wars that took up most of the first 20 years of this new century—even after the lies of the Bush administration and the complicity of the Howard government, even after the terrible crimes that are now on the record as having been committed in Afghanistan by our special forces, the statement that 'War must never be the answer' is still one which the major parties refute.</para>
<para>I'm sure in the course of this debate there will be many spurious propositions made by those representing the major parties. I have brought on this debate directly as a result of the refusal of the major parties yesterday to take the simple common-decency step of acknowledging the victims of Australian war crimes in Afghanistan and committing ourselves—having apologised—to a compensation scheme. In the aftermath of that disgraceful decision today, it is obviously so needed for this place to fully understand how we came to be here today and what needs to be done to ensure that these crimes are never committed again and to ensure that we never again deploy our forces overseas into a conflict zone. We ask people to put their lives on the line while nobody in this parliament is willing to take political responsibility for that decision. Not one MP is willing to create a process in which we vote to make that happen.</para>
<para>First of all, it is so important, as I said, to understand how we came to be here today, at this moment, when these horrific war crimes have been revealed to our community. It began, in my opinion, with the illegal invasion of Iraq and the misguided invasion of Afghanistan, two conflicts which we entered into at the behest of the United States—in the case of Iraq, on a false premise, on an illegal premise, on a lie about WMDs, and, in the case of Afghanistan, following along behind the Americans, once again, into a war of regime change. Once there, there was no clear strategic direction established, and yet administration after administration, Labor and Liberal, approved the continuation of our presence in that country. Administration after administration ignored the warnings from many returning veterans that the length of deployment and what was being asked of serving personnel was too much and that the job they had been given to do was something that they were neither trained to do nor capable of doing. And yet governments, Labor and Liberal alike, were happy to sign up once again and again and again to maintain our presence there to keep the Americans happy.</para>
<para>That is why as we talk about the war crimes that have been committed in Afghanistan we must talk first of political accountability. We must hold the Howard administration, the Rudd administration, the Gillard administration, the Turnbull administration and the Abbott administration responsible for continuing this deployment, this engagement, long after it was clear that there was no strategic objective, that there was no victory that was possible and that our presence in Afghanistan was doing great harm to the people of Afghanistan and to those being asked to serve in that conflict.</para>
<para>Firstly, we must, from this moment, take it upon ourselves to answer the community's call to put the responsibility for declaring war and entering into armed conflict into the hands of the parliament. It is clear that the executive cannot be trusted to make these decisions because they have so often led our armed forces into harm's way for no good reason. This process would, as I have outlined to the Senate in the bill that I have introduced, enable a process in which the Governor-General and the Prime Minister would make a case to the parliament as to the legality, the duration and the number of personnel needed, as part of a debate on whether we should deploy into territory overseas. And it would require the defence minister to come before the parliament every two months and update the parliament on the nature of the deployment. It would facilitate the community's ability to examine the case for conflict, for war, should there ever be one, and ensure that we are never again lied to in relation to the reasons why we are entering into a conflict zone.</para>
<para>Secondly, it is vital to understand that, when we talk of these crimes that have been committed, the chain of command must be held to account. The contention within the Brereton report that there exists a magical line above which no-one in the armed forces chain of command knew about what was happening on the ground in Afghanistan is nonsense. It is offensive. It is absolutely untenable. Officers knew. The chain of command knew. For the ADF's chain of command to come before the Australian public and contend that there existed a magical line above which nobody knew what was going on is ridiculous; and that the disciplinary measures will be determined between Chief of Army and Chief of the Defence Force, absolutely unacceptable. We cannot have a situation in which ops personnel on the ground are held to a different standard than those up the chain.</para>
<para>And, while we are on the subject of the unacceptable, it is absolutely not okay that those such as David McBride—who attempted again and again to flag his concerns through the proper channels, only to be rebuked—is now facing 50 years of imprisonment at the hands of this government for attempting to tell the public that which we now know to be true. There must be accountability for the chain of command, and the implementation of the reforms suggested for the ADF must be overseen by those without a conflict of interest. Let me say it very clearly: General Campbell and General Burr have a real conflict of interest. They served in senior command positions during our time in Afghanistan. They are both former members of the SAS. We owe it to the public and to the victims to ensure that these recommendations, this cultural brokenness that has been created within our Special Air Services, are dealt with by those without an interest in the matter. That cannot be said of Generals Burr and Campbell, and that is why I repeat here tonight that, for the good of this investigation and for the maintenance of public faith, they must resign. If they do not resign, the Prime Minister must sack them.</para>
<para>Lastly, in this debate, I want to bring it back to the reality that 39 families have lost loved ones, that there are 39 families in Afghanistan right now that have lost loved ones to these crimes, and that two other families that we know of now have members that are irreparably maimed by these crimes. No-one—not the Prime Minister; not the Chief of the ADF—questions the content of the Brereton report as to the crimes uncovered. And so it should be possible for this parliament—with a spirit of humility and of genuine sorrow and from the desire that exists in this community of ours to make good for wrong done—to say sorry to those that have been lost to these crimes and to make that apology material by offering compensation to the families.</para>
<para>Let us look clearly in the eye of what has happened here. Let us seize this opportunity to reckon with the reality that war is hell and when we enter into it without a clear reason for it, when we enable it to become distanced from political scrutiny, when we enable culture to develop among those who we ask to fight that dehumanises, these crimes, these actions, are inevitable. Let us pledge here to take those steps necessary to ensure that these things never happen again, that there is accountability of the chain of command, that there is justice for the families and that we here in this place take the steps to secure peace—peace for our community here in Australia, for our region and for every human being on this blue planet.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If you look out the front doors of Parliament House, you cannot help but see the vision of the avenue and then ultimately the Australian War Memorial. It is the men and women who have served this nation, who have been willing to give their lives, who in fact allow us to celebrate and enjoy the democracy we have in Australia today. So those of us who participate in this debate need to acknowledge up-front the service of the men and women who have been willing to lay down their lives for us so that we can enjoy the freedoms that we have today. That surely has to be the starting point in any debate, any concern, in relation to our defence forces.</para>
<para>Men and women of previous generations have protected us from invasion by dictatorships. They continue to do so. They continue to protect us. And, when we have engaged in theatres of war around the world, it has been to protect not only us but also our friends and fellow human beings from the ugly hand of dictatorship. We have stood by friends in the support of freedom. Now, into that history in recent times has been brought this credible information that certain untoward activities may have occurred. The mover of the motion continually asserted—falsely, might I add—that crimes had been committed. That remains to be determined.</para>
<para>If you want to rely on this report, you have to do so with integrity. You cannot pick and choose and say all the generals up the chain of command have to take responsibility; therefore, I reject that part of the report. But the honourable senator, in moving the motion, has also rejected that part of the report which says that it is credible information but nothing has been proven.</para>
<para>One of the great civilising features of our society is that we actually believe in the rule of law, that we actually believe in the presumption of innocence, that we do rely on proof, that we do require evidence before we are willing to condemn people. Can I remind the honourable senator that, because we are a civilised society, we do not believe in the lynch mob. We do not believe in the feral activities of people saying, 'I don't like this person and let's start condemning the person,' because we know how that ends up. Australia has just recently gone through a very shameful chapter in relation to Cardinal George Pell, where the High Court of Australia—seven-nil—came to the conclusion that an innocent man may well have been convicted. It was seven-nil in the High Court yet hundreds of thousands of people around this—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Steele-John?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Steele-John</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Nowhere in this motion is there a mention of Cardinal George Pell, so I would ask you to bring Senator Abetz to order on the issue of relevance.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am listening to Senator Abetz's contribution very carefully and I will draw his attention to the content of the motion. Thank you, Senator Abetz.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would have thought even the honourable senator would have understood the consequences of a lynch mob seeking to condemn a person without going through the proper judicial system of proving things.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Abetz. Senator Whish-Wilson.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order, Senator Steele-John is not honourable because he has not been a minister. I think Senator Abetz should refer to him as Senator Steele-John.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take some of the interjections around the chamber. I thought that we were in the manner of referring to ourselves as honourable if we so wished. I will ask Senator Abetz to continue with his contribution.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Here we are, being told by the Australian Greens that this is an urgent matter of great principle, yet we have the laughter and the stupidity of those sorts of points of order indicating that the Australian Greens do not take this matter as seriously as they have asserted by moving a matter of urgency.</para>
<para>But I go back to the point that one of the great civilising features of our society is that we don't believe in the lynch mob, that we do believe in the rule of law, that we do believe that a person should be convicted only on the basis of evidence and not on the basis of mere assertions. And let's be very clear about the report in which the senator—I will delete the word 'honourable', and I must say I feel more comfortable in just referring to him as a senator—says that there is credible information. As a result of credible information, you go through the process of investigating to ascertain whether or not the credible information can be proven, and the report itself says that many of those things that they have found have not been put to a standard of proof—not even on the basis of the balance of probabilities, let alone beyond reasonable doubt. All they're asserting is that there is credible information.</para>
<para>Let's also be clear that, in this motion, we are being told that the military chain of command needs to be held to account for their role. What did the inquiry find? I quote:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Inquiry has found no evidence that there was knowledge of, or reckless indifference to, the commission of war crimes, on the part of commanders at troop/platoon, squadron/company or Task Group Headquarters level, let alone at higher levels such as Commander Joint Task Force (CJTF) 633, Joint Operations Command, or Australian Defence Headquarters. Nor is the Inquiry of the view that there was a failure at any of those levels to take reasonable and practical steps that would have prevented or detected the commission of war crimes.</para></quote>
<para>But here we have the Australian Greens, despite this finding, coming in and demanding the resignation of certain people higher up in the defence forces. On what basis? On the basis that they know better than the inquiry—they know better than everybody else. According to the Australian Greens, these men should be required to resign from their positions. Why? Because the Greens say so—not because of an inquiry finding anything. In fact, the inquiry found the exact opposite of that which the senator is asserting to us and the nation—that these matters—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Abetz. Senior Steele-John?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Steele-John</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As unhappy as I always am to be verballed by Senator Abetz, I made it clear in my contribution that I called for their resignation on the basis of a real or perceived conflict of interest. I am unhappy about being verballed like this by the senator.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Steele-John, if you want to—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Steele-John interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's a debating point, Senator Steele-John. You can seek to correct the point at the end of the debate if you wish to, but, otherwise, I will ask Senator Abetz to continue with his contribution.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You always know that you're making a solid contribution when the Greens raise frivolous points of order. This is now the third one. We'll see if they get another one in within the 10 minutes. But we were told that crimes had been committed. We were told that the Gillard government is responsible as well. And, of course, I am well reminded of the fact that the only reason we had the Gillard government was that the Australian Greens signed up with them. So, if the Gillard government is responsible, let's deal with Senator Bob Brown accordingly as well, and let's see them scuttle away like cockroaches when you turn the light on. They will not want to be—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Abetz.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And here we go—spurious point of order No. 4.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Abetz! Senator Whish-Wilson?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Not spurious at all—I'd ask the senator to withdraw that imputation. That was used by the Nazis repeatedly as propaganda—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Cockroaches and shining lights on them has been used by the Nazis and the same totalitarian regimes that you referred to in your speech, Senator Abetz. You know that and you should withdraw that imputation.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Whish-Wilson. Senator Abetz, if you could clarify your comments, that would be appreciated, and then continue.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm terribly sorry, Madam Acting Deputy President, but there is no need to clarify a well-known expression about cockroaches scuttling away when you turn on the lights. It is a common turn of phrase within the Australian parlance, and I have never known it to be associated as Senator Whish-Wilson in his frivolous point of order seeks to assert. But, let's be very clear: did they deny in that point of order that the only reason the Gillard government was able to be in existence was that Senator Bob Brown and the Australian Greens joined them to allow them to then commit those crimes, about which Senator Steele-John regaled the Senate? If we go right up the chain of command and demand that all the parliamentarians responsible be held responsible, it would mean that Senator Bob Brown would be responsible as well and would need to be dealt with. Of course, that is where, when you take the Greens' logic to its proper extent, you find that their arguments fall apart. They are internally inconsistent.</para>
<para>All that said, what the government has sought to do and has done very responsibility is to ensure that this credible information is dealt with in a proper manner through the rule of law, through the proper system, that it be investigated and ascertained, and then we can determine whether or not men and women ought be charged and, if so, with what charge—and the consequences that flow. This is not for this chamber to determine. We have the rule of law in this country for a very good reason. We do seek to ensure that it's not parliamentarians who determine who gets charged or who gets convicted. That is for a separate arm of our government, the judicial system, to determine. What I simply say to Senator Steele-John and others in this place is be very, very careful what you wish for, because one day, as you seek to use the parliament to condemn people, others in this parliament may then use it as well. It is a dangerous precedent which should be rejected.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The release of the report by the Inspector-General of the Australian Defence Force, Major General Brereton, into allegations of war crimes committed by Australian special forces in Afghanistan is a difficult moment for the nation. Findings in the report that credible information exists in relation to some members of Australia's special forces having engaged in unlawful killings and cruel treatment while deployed in Afghanistan are appalling. This report states that credible evidence exists that members of our most elite armed forces behaved unlawfully, unconscionably and committed war crimes as defined by the Australian criminal justice system. These allegations in respect of a few do not detract from the sacrifice of the many who have served our country and, in particular, the thousands of current and former soldiers who served in Afghanistan. Major General Brereton has demonstrated the utmost integrity in handling this difficult task, and we thank him for his work. We also acknowledge the courageous leadership within the Australian Defence Force in ordering this investigation and now committing to the next steps.</para>
<para>The report is distressing for many who have shown extraordinary bravery in speaking up about what they saw and knew was inappropriate conduct. Giving voice to their concerns would not have been easy. The report highlights that the protective culture insulating special forces soldiers was a key factor in creating an environment that allowed unlawful behaviour. The report also demonstrates that we should have faith in the Australian justice system. Where allegations of bad conduct are made, they are properly investigated and the findings acted upon. The confronting honesty of the report highlights that Australia is a country that respects the Geneva conventions, human rights and the rule of law and that no-one is exempt from those laws. We support the establishment of the Office of the Special Investigator to oversee the investigations following this report. It is now appropriate that it is allowed to do its work free of any prejudice or political interference.</para>
<para>Yesterday the Senate agreed to a significant motion—moved together by the Leader of the Government in the Senate, the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and the Minister for Defence—recognising the allegations of grave misconduct by some members of the Australian special forces community. The Senate, through this motion, also expressed its deep sympathy to the people of Afghanistan and the government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan for the alleged misconduct and command failures identified by the inquiry and noted the Chief of the Defence Force, on behalf of the Australian Defence Force, has also sincerely and unreservedly apologised to the people of Afghanistan for any wrongdoing by Australian soldiers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, what I would like to do today, with this opportunity to speak, is ask some questions. I want to precede that by saying that I don't know a lot about this topic, but I feel very strongly that we need to know more about it in this chamber and in parliament itself. This in some ways refers to the trial, and Senator Kitching and Senator Abetz have discussed that. I won't comment, because I don't know the facts and there is a trial underway.</para>
<para>I want to turn to and ask questions about the source of the conflict, the root cause, because I think many people in this chamber will share these questions with me. What is the source of the regional conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, and more particularly what is the source of our entry as participants into those conflicts? I can vividly remember Mr Alexander Downer retiring from parliament and saying, in his ABC interview, that one of the things he remembered—they were talking about various stories—was that the Prime Minister at the time, John Howard, came back from America when they had the 9/11 catastrophe. He walked into the cabinet, I believe, and just said, 'We're off to Iraq.' That floored me. We're committing all these troops, changing their lives and changing the lives of people in other countries, with no debate—just saying, 'We're off to Iraq,' with no Executive Council meeting, no cabinet meeting and no parliamentary scrutiny or review. I don't think that the parliament should have the power to declare war or to decide whether or not our troops are engaged overseas, but it needs to have some review. Governments need to be able to act quickly, but we must have some review regularly.</para>
<para>As I understand it—and I may be wrong on this—we never declared war in Afghanistan. The Afghanistan war, at its core, is a civil war. It's a tribal nation. It's had conflict for hundreds of years. People have tried to take it over. The Americans and the Russians—people with far superior weapons—have been in Afghanistan, but no-one has conquered Afghanistan. It remains an unresolved conflict that is just sucking up lives. Remember that Australians weren't dealing with soldiers over there; they were dealing with terrorists. Sometimes little boys or girls were dressed up, wrapped in a bomb. People were infiltrating our own armed forces. Trainees from Afghanistan that we were training were infiltrating our forces and shooting Australians and Americans in their training camps. This has not been a conventional war, and we have put young people from Australia in harm's way. Some died, and some have a far worse fate. They are suffering with the acts that they committed under extreme stress, and they will live with that. It should be our duty, no matter the findings of this trial, to help them to live with that.</para>
<para>I come back to the person who took us into Afghanistan, the head of this country. We were told we were going into Iraq because of weapons of mass destruction. There were none, and the people of the greatest democracy in terms of size and the most powerful nation on earth, the United States, were told the same lie. The US Secretary of Defense, the President and various cabinet ministers admitted later that there was no evidence of weapons of mass destruction, and our heads of state admitted that here. Who will hold these people accountable?</para>
<para>Who will hold the agencies accountable for briefing them? The ultimate responsibility for soldiers' actions are the values of the country and the leaders of the country, because the leaders are trustees for the values.</para>
<para>But there is hope. For the first time in many, many United States presidencies, we have a president—Donald Trump—who has not started a war. My understanding is that he is the first in many, many presidential terms. It's now the lefties, the Obamas and the Bidens, who want to drop bombs on behalf of globalists. It is Trump who is withdrawing troops and he has done so since he first became President. Trump is the first President to engage in peace-making efforts with South Korea.</para>
<para>I highlight the responsibility of the senior levels of our government and of our parliament, and our joint responsibilities to fulfil them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Another day, another motion of urgency from the Greens where they have failed to look at the government's response to an issue before attacking it. Yesterday the Greens moved a motion wanting the opportunity to increase the number of motions they can bring forward to this chamber. When they constantly use matters of urgency and MPIs to attack the government on issues where they clearly haven't looked at the facts, it is hard for this chamber to even consider—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Steele-John</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order on relevance. Given the content of the motion, Senator Van's contribution is not relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Van has just started his speech. Senator Van.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's hard for this chamber to even consider giving them more opportunities. This chamber has serious business to consider. We currently have more than 20 bills on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>. The Greens are here just trying to interrupt, disrupt and frustrate the work which we do in this place. Yet again the Greens have moved a motion of urgency. It's a clear dorothy dixer for us because, once again, they have provided us with a great opportunity to highlight the actions that the Morrison government is taking on this matter, which are methodical, clear, calm and appropriate.</para>
<para>There is no doubt the findings within the Brereton report were sad, distressing, concerning and require thorough action to be taken. The Morrison government, along with the Australian Defence Force, is taking action to meet not only our domestic and international obligations but also our moral obligation to ensure that this does not happen again. The findings of the Brereton report are amongst the most serious issues that any Prime Minister, Minister for Defence or any Chief of Defence Force have ever had to do deal with in the history of our nation. The members of the crossbench who have decided to come in here and use this report for political point scoring need to realise that there is no quick fix for this. There are no easy answers. There is no one, simple thing that will deal with the reasons behind these multiple allegations of war crimes. In contrast to the tokenism from those in the Greens, this government along with the Chief of Defence Force, are getting on with the job.</para>
<para>Let's talk about some of the facts about what this government is doing. On 19 November this year, the CDF released a public version of the Afghanistan inquiry report delivered to him by the Inspector-General of the ADF. The Chief of the Defence Force said the ADF is rightly held to account for allegations of grave misconduct by some members of the Australian Special Forces during operations in Afghanistan. The CDF, on behalf of the ADF, has sincerely and unreservedly apologised to the people of Afghanistan for any wrongdoing. Furthermore, he conveyed this message to his Afghan counterpart, General Zia. The CDF is leading Defence's response to the inquiry report by developing an implementation plan. This implementation plan will undertake actioning of the Inspector-General's recommendations and any other matters arising from the report. Once developed, this implementation plan will be provided to the government for consideration and response, as it should be. To ensure the implementation plan is appropriate, our government has established the Afghanistan Inquiry Implementation Oversight Panel. This panel will comprise three eminent, experienced and suitably qualified Australians and will provide oversight of Defence's response. This panel will be independent of Defence and report back directly and regularly to the Minister for Defence. This response will ensure that the response from Defence is thoughtful, measured and appropriate.</para>
<para>There is no denying that allegations contained in the inquiry report are deeply disturbing. They must be addressed and individually investigated, but they need to be addressed with a deep respect for justice and the rule of law. Fundamental to that is the presumption of innocence, the central tenet of our criminal legal system. Senator Waters coming in here and calling on the government to bring individuals to justice flies in the face of that tenet. We have to respect the rule of law; we have to protect the presumption of innocence. Throughout the report, the recommendations state that there is a realistic prospect of a criminal investigation obtaining sufficient evidence to charge. That's the whole point: we need to make sure that there is a criminal investigation that obtains that sufficient evidence before charges can be laid; we can't act as judge and jury in this place.</para>
<para>This is why the Morrison Liberal government is also establishing the Office of the Special Investigator within the Home Affairs portfolio. The office will address the potential criminal matters identified in the inquiry report. In particular, this new office will investigate allegations, gather evidence and, where appropriate, refer briefs to the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions for their consideration. This is a considered, thorough and mature approach to dealing with these grave allegations. Any administrative, disciplinary, judicial or other proceedings arising as a result of the inquiry will be conducted according to the well-established processes of Australia's legal system, processes which ensure individuals' rights to due process and a fair hearing. Accountability will be the cornerstone of Defence's response to the inquiry.</para>
<para>The government of the day also has a duty of care to members of our Defence Force, something the Greens seemingly pay scant regard to— <inline font-style="italic">(Quorum formed)</inline></para>
<para>Again, we see the Greens playing games in this place. We see them playing petty little children's games. They're just making a mockery of this place and of the serious business that needs to be done here. I'll go back to my speech. We, the Morrison Liberal government, are committed to ensuring that current and former serving ADF members are not impacted by the Afghanistan inquiry—them along with their families—that they all have access to the right support at the right time. We're also focused on supporting those who are vulnerable or at risk. The Australian Defence Force is the finest military in the world. The inquiry report should not cast a shadow over the vast majority of our Defence Force members who served in Afghanistan with distinction.</para>
<para>This year, we've seen the best of our Defence Force right here at home, through operations such as Bushfire Assist and their support to states and territories during the COVID pandemic. Every day this year, we've seen images of our Defence Force personnel helping everyday Australians through what has been the hardest year that I can certainly remember. While depressing, unedifying and completely regrettable, the allegations outlined in the Brereton report do not reflect the service of our Defence Force service men and women.</para>
<para>It's clear that there is no quick fix. There are no easy answers. And it is incredibly disappointing that Senator Waters and her Greens colleagues at that end of the chamber just want to play games and score political points with this very important matter and to waste the time of the Senate.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to this matter of urgency. What happened in Afghanistan was the murder and torture of innocent people, even children, which left families torn apart and communities in ruin. These heinous war crimes committed by Australia are another shameful chapter in our history. We demand justice for the victims.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Government senators interjecting—</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This government should be ashamed, standing there, shouting back at us and saying that these crimes didn't happen. The perpetrators of these crimes and their superiors must be held to account and must face the full force of the law. Justice must be served here. All investigations must be independent, and the findings have to be made public. There must be fair compensation and reparations for the families and to the communities targeted by these disgusting crimes. The government must apologise to those families. Australian soldiers must be brought home. In stories like that of Australian soldiers drinking beer out of a dead Taliban fighter's prosthetic leg we see the culture that allowed this brutality to go on.</para>
<para>We shouldn't just oppose war crimes, though; we should reject the militarism and the nationalism that encourages them. World over, we see the horrifying human cost when unfettered militarism and nationalism fuel and permit state violence. In Palestine, the occupying forces have committed untold human rights abuses with impunity and the support of those who deny Palestinian people self-determination and the right of return. In Kashmir, the military continues to enforce a cruel lockdown, denies Kashmiris access to internet and other essentials and is responsible for arbitrary detentions. In Xinjiang, a vast military apparatus sustains the oppression and cultural genocide of Uighurs, separating families, detaining hundreds of thousands, and subjecting many to cruelties like forced sterilisation.</para>
<para>Just as all violence and war must be condemned and avoided, the politicians who take us to wars must be condemned and held to account. The post-9/11 wars on terror have raged for 20 years now. These wars have killed half a million civilians in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan. Women have been the often unseen victims of this war, their rights violated while they face gender based violence. Afghans have been forced to flee their own country. They are now one of the largest refugee populations in the world.</para>
<para>We must admit that deploying armed forces, guns and bombs in the name of quashing terrorism will not protect anyone. It has the exact opposite effect. We must stop warmongering and blindly following the US. Where war is concerned, history has sadly repeated itself time and again. The incessant self-interested attempts of the West to control and extinguish complex Middle Eastern conflicts must end. We must not forget that the root cause of these conflicts stems from similar Western interventions in the first place. We need to clearly imagine what we want for the world. That means changing the conversation from going to war to bringing peace and justice. If that is what we aim for then our success will rest on reparations for past injustices; fair economic, environmental and social development; and respect for human rights—not on military capabilities.</para>
<para>I do want to acknowledge the courage of whistleblowers like David McBride and journalists here and in Afghanistan who put their necks and, indeed, their lives on the line to get the truth out in the open. They must be protected. Australians have been shocked by the inhumanity of the heinous war crimes exposed by the Brereton report. Now is the time to bring people together and send a strong message to our government: war criminals must be charged, soldiers must be brought home, reparations must be given and war is never the answer.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Prima facie what we heard from the Brereton report clearly signalled war crimes, criminality and gross human rights violations. It is true that there have been no prosecutions and we don't know what charges will be laid and when that will happen, but prima facie what we've heard is very concerning and has deeply shocked the Australian people. I did say in here in question time the other day—and I meant it—that I don't think any cohort of Australians would have been more shocked than many serving members of the ADF and the veteran community. I spoke to my own father, who is a Vietnam vet, about this.</para>
<para>We need to be very clear here. When we're speaking about our defence services we need to be open and honest about the situation because if we don't clear it up then of course, by logic, everyone in the Defence Force is going to be tarred with this brush. If we brush it under the carpet, pretend it's going to go away and say, 'Look over there,' it's never going to go away and that taint will always remain. The best thing to do is to be open and transparent and to deal with this expeditiously and independently.</para>
<para>I would like to raise a point about whistleblowers. We only got the Brereton report released because of a whistleblower—David McBride, an ex-Army major who worked with special forces. He had significant concerns about the conduct of the war—and he has been very public about that—including senior officers and other non-commissioned officers acting with impunity. He raised his concerns internally for two years, and they weren't dealt with. He went to the Australian Federal Police, and they weren't dealt with. Out of desperation he went to the media. He's a whistleblower.</para>
<para>We know that the ABC offices were raided by the Australian Federal Police upon publication of information that was passed on by McBride. Thankfully, the Attorney-General has decided not to prosecute the media in this instance or the publishers; however, this government in the Senate last week refused to rule out the prosecution of a veteran who has had two tours of Afghanistan and blown the whistle and delivered us a report on prima facie Australian war crimes in Afghanistan. Whether we like it or not and whether it troubles us and keeps us awake at night or not, a whistleblower has delivered this. So why is that court case going ahead? Why is David McBride facing 50 years in jail?</para>
<para>Let me tell you this: the Brereton report said that not only should whistleblowers be protected, to encourage an expeditious process in getting to the bottom of this; they should be applauded and promoted. That has come directly from the Brereton report. So why is the person who disclosed this and got this into the public realm facing jail? I have to put that question, because it seems to be part of a political strategy by this government to go after whistleblowers who embarrass them. It's not just David McBride; it's also Bernard Collaery—the lawyer for Witness K—and Witness K, who also exposed criminality by our intelligence agencies and our government in relation to one of our neighbours, Timor-Leste, a much poorer country than us.</para>
<para>And there is the complicity and silence of this government on the extradition of Walkley Award-winning journalist Julian Assange to the country whose war crimes he exposed. We think about McBride and the Afghanistan report, and how that has shocked the Australian people. WikiLeaks exposed identical war crimes or worse by our allied forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. There was no doubting what Julian Assange exposed; it was 100 per cent factual, and it was published all around the world by key media outlets. Yet this Australian publisher, this whistleblower, is in jail, behind bars—as Chelsea Manning was in the US—and is facing 175 years in a process that's never been seen before, where a foreign citizen is being extradited to the US on espionage charges. This is also something we need to deal with when we think about Afghanistan. Free Julian Assange and bring him back to Australia.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion put by Senator Steele-John be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [18:26]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Griff)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>38</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A</name>
                <name>Askew, W</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Chandler, C</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Davey, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                <name>Hughes, H</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>McDonald, S</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                <name>McMahon, S</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Rennick, G</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Roberts, M</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Scarr, P</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                <name>Small, B</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Van, D</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>73</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order and at the request of the chairs of the respective committees, I present reports from the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee and the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee in respect of the 2020-21 budget estimates, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings and documents presented to the committees.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>73</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, Senator Abetz, I present additional information received by the committee on its inquiry into the Foreign Relations State and Territory Arrangements Bill 2020 and a related bill.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Joint Standing Committee on Treaties</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties, I present the 192nd report of the committee <inline font-style="italic">Military Training—Singapore; Digital Economy—Singapore</inline>. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Works Committee</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, I present the committee's sixth report of 2020. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Intelligence and Security Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security, I present two reports, on the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Amendment Bill 2020 and on the review of the listing and re-listing of two organisations as terrorist organisations under the Criminal Code. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit, I present the 483rd and 484th reports as well as four executive minutes relating to report Nos. 452, 475 and 481. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to take note of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit report, and particularly their report on the sports rorts scandal. Basically, this report of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit further underlines the work that we have been doing in the Senate in the select committee on the sports reports scandal. So we're pleased to see that the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit has agreed with the findings of the select committee and has raised the same issues as us, essentially going to the heart of the fact that the minister who signed off on deciding where money was going to be spent on these sports grants and questioning whether she had the legal authority to be the decision-maker. Really, this report raises the same issues that we've seen raised through the select committee interim report, the same issues of accountability and the same issues of the scandal of these grants being used, being directed, for political purposes basically for the government to try and win elections. In particular, it raises the issue of the hundreds of emails, the dozens of spreadsheets and the absolute unwillingness of this government to be accountable by the fact that they have withheld documents and they have refused to provide key information. This report really supports what we have found out in the select committee and highlights the critical point, which the Liberal Party have failed to answer, and that is that we want more information. It needs to be on the table for the Senate. In particular, we want Senator McKenzie, former Minister McKenzie, to come out of witness protection and tell us what went on. In particular, we think that Senator McKenzie should actually fess up and say it just wasn't all her idea, because the role of the Prime Minister in this is very clear from the evidence that we have considered in our committee and the evidence in the report of the joint committee we are talking about today.</para>
<para>We've had the Prime Minister refusing to answer questions about the role he played and the role that his office played in these sports rorts. We know that spreadsheets were attached to at least one letter from Senator McKenzie to the Prime Minister. We know that his minister was holding up decisions on which grants were going to be approved, because he hadn't seen lists or approved them. And we know that his office actually made changes to the grants allocations. So we actually think it's simply unfair that Senator McKenzie has been made to wear the political pain for this program when it's very clear that the Prime Minister was up to his neck in it. He and his office were profoundly involved in the rort. We've now got two reports that we have considered that make it very clear that Senator McKenzie should appear before the Senate committee and give a clear answer about what the Prime Minister knew. Keeping her in witness protection for so long is simply unfair to her and to the Australian people.</para>
<para>This matters because it goes to the heart of our democracy; it goes to the heart of the people of Australia being able to trust that the processes that are put in place are going to be fair, accountable and transparent. Clearly, determining which clubs got grants under this program was not transparent and not fair. We have a whole cohort of clubs that should have got grants, clubs that scored incredibly highly on Sport Australia's assessment, that missed out. We know that the fact that they missed out means an awful lot to them. We know that, having put in hundreds of hours of work for really worthy programs that scored really highly, that funding would have made a huge difference to them and their communities.</para>
<para>We want the Prime Minister to apologise. He should come clean and enable Senator McKenzie to come out of witness protection. Above all, as the sports rorts interim report that we're considering today says, we need transparency, accountability and a decision from the Prime Minister and this government to fund the sporting clubs that missed out.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak on the Joint Committee on Public Accounts and Audit report into the administration of government grants. The report recommends sweeping changes to the administration of taxpayer grant schemes. That includes making sure there are clear guidelines for allocating public money, the novel suggestion of keeping clear records of how decisions are made and the excellent suggestion of actually implementing compliance mechanisms to ensure that guidelines are, in fact, followed.</para>
<para>The fact that a committee, dominated by government members, concludes that there's something rotten in the way that government grants are being administered, and then the government falls well short of community expectations, is very telling. The fact that the committee remains unconvinced that the minister even had the authority to issue the grants, which were at the heart of sports rorts, is particularly concerning. So many community organisations, small businesses and individuals pour hours of their time into applying for grants. They expect their applications will be assessed objectively and against the published criteria and they expect public money to be used wisely. This government doesn't even bother to pretend anymore. Various grants, particularly the community development grants, which government officials conceded in estimates are used as a slush fund for election promises, are blatant pork-barrelling. Millions of dollars of public money continue to be used to feather their own nests and secure another term in power.</para>
<para>For this reason, earlier this year, the Greens moved to propose a select committee inquiry into the allocation of government grants. We know it's not just sports rorts, we know it's not just the community development grants and we know it's not just a handful of other ones; we know that this is a systemic problem. So we moved that there be a committee that actually looks at the administration of all government grant programs during and after election campaigns. We wanted it to look at things like eligibility criteria; management and assessment processes; the use of closed grants programs, which are not open to public applications but just require the minister to nominate the recipient; adherence to the published assessment processes and program criteria; the relationship between election commitments and grant allocations; the need to demonstrate value for money; the efforts to influence votes through grant allocations; the role of ministers in determining the award of grants; and measures to manage the risk of politicisation of funding outcomes and announcements. We know that all these things desperately need to be examined, because, frankly, we already know the grants programs are rorted to high heaven. We wanted to get to the bottom of how that could be fixed to try to attempt to restore some confidence in the public about the administration of their money.</para>
<para>It was all going very well, and we thought we were going to have support to establish that excellent inquiry. We'd had a chat with all the various people whose votes we needed to get the inquiry up, and what do you know? Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party, who had told us they would support this inquiry, at the last minute changed their minds. I think it was two days later that a photograph of Senator Hanson opening a sports stadium in Rockhampton and holding a novelty cheque ran in the papers.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Point of order, Mr Acting Deputy President: that's a clear reflection on Senator Hanson, from our home state of Queensland, and I would ask that you consider requesting the senator to withdraw.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scarr, I don't see that as being a poor reflection in the way that it was actually presented.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Mr Acting Deputy President, for your ruling. I was simply stating some facts. It's very interesting that the Liberals are jumping to the defence of One Nation, in particular when we're talking about the granting of public moneys in an election context. That inquiry, which would have examined the rot at the heart of this system and this government, was stymied. It didn't get up. So I'm very grateful to the Joint Committee on Public Accounts and Audit that they had a look at just this sports rorts issue. As I said, we actually wanted a far broader range of issues to be looked at, but we were overruled by the vested interests in this place.</para>
<para>I also want to take this opportunity, on the eve of International Anti-Corruption Day, and you'll hear a bit more from me about that tomorrow, to note with incredible joy, pleasure, happiness, contentment the role that the ANAO have played in uncovering the misuse of public funds—in uncovering the rorting, the pork-barrelling and the generally poor practices around the allocation of government grants. The same committee that published the report that we are speaking to right now previously published a report that supported the ANAO and, interestingly, supported their call for a funding increase. It was that committee that identified that, without additional funds, the ANAO's capacity to undertake audits would reduce by 20 per cent. Of course, the budget did not see an increase in the ANAO's budget allocation, and so, naturally, this government has ensured that the ANAO's output will decrease by 20 per cent. One wonders at the coincidence there, given the explosive revelations that the ANAO helped to bring to light in this sports rorts scandal. So let's hope that this present committee report isn't ignored, as that one was. But it is long past time that Australians should have confidence in the administration of their money in an election contest where seats in government are at stake. It's about time the snouts came out of the trough and we started acting in the public interest. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity Committee</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the report on the integrity of Australia's border arrangements, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>The Joint Committee on the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity has today tabled the report from our longstanding inquiry into the integrity of Australia's border arrangements. This inquiry investigated how well government agencies which work to secure our border are able to protect themselves from infiltration and corruption by transnational, serious and organised crime elements who seek to subvert Australia's borders. The committee has found that overall our law enforcement agencies are clear eyed about the risk environment and have adopted appropriately robust mechanisms to seek out infiltration and corruption when it happens. The committee also found that the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity, ACLEI, has performed its functions well in investigating potential breaches of border agencies' integrity. Importantly, ACLEI has improved its processes to upskill law enforcement agencies in both corruption detection and prevention strategies to stop corruption and infiltration before either has a chance to take effect. However, a key challenge remains to ensure that law enforcement agencies work together in a more-coordinated fashion to tackle integrity risk factors. Every chain is only as strong as the weakest link.</para>
<para>The committee found that improvements could be made in developing an overarching strategy to target the types of serious crime and corruption experienced in the unique environment of Australia's border agencies. The committee noted that successive Australian governments have taken significant action to improve border related functions to ensure those processes maintain their integrity and continue to protect Australians. These changes have included strengthening the approvals regime for maritime and airport security cards, but there is more to do. The committee has recommended the Australian government consider further streamlining the number of identity-card-approving authorities and creating a central register. The committee's key recommendation is that Australian government law enforcement agencies develop, in consultation with ACLEI, a coordinated serious crime and corruption strategy with a particular focus on corruption at Australia's borders. A further recommendation is that Home Affairs and the department of water and the environment develop better consistency across their integrity and anticorruption frameworks, including developing site-specific approaches.</para>
<para>As part of this inquiry a delegation of the committee travelled to New Zealand and Vanuatu to understand the integrity frameworks of those near-neighbour countries and how individual initiatives or aspects of those frameworks might be relevant for Australia. I didn't have the benefit of going on that visit, but I've seen the photos. I was quite envious of those committee members who had the opportunity for that experience. The committee would like to again extend the thanks of the committee to the governments of New Zealand and Vanuatu for their openness to our discussions and for the strength of our ongoing partnerships to tackle transnational, serious and organised crime in the Pacific region.</para>
<para>I would like on behalf of the committee to thank secretariat staff who were involved in producing this report: Mr Sean Turner, the former secretary of the committee; Ms Kate Gauthier, principal research officer; Ms Alice Clapham, administrative officer; and Ms Stephanie Gill, administrative officer. I would like to conclude by thanking all the committee members involved in the production of this report, including our deputy chair, Senator Bilyk, who's provided wonderful support to me on the committee in my capacity as chair. I know Senator Bilyk gets embarrassed when I thank her in this place for that assistance, but I do enjoy working with Senator Bilyk. I note Senator Bilyk has some additional comments but certainly does agree, as I understand, with the recommendations of the committee.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Joint Committee on the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity's report of our inquiry into the integrity of Australia's border arrangements. As Deputy Chair of this committee, I've had the opportunity to work closely on this inquiry over the last three parliaments. I would like first to express my particular thanks to all the committee secretariat staff, as Senator Scarr just has, who do an enormous amount of work in order to make inquiries happen and have reports written. I would also like to particularly thank Sean Turner, Pothida Youhorn, Kate Gauthier, Alice Clapham and Stephanie Gill. I would like also to thank the various members and senators who have participated on this committee over many years that the inquiry has been going and, of course, pay particular thanks to the current chair, Senator Scarr, for his ability to have a rational and frank discussion. This inquiry investigated the integrity functions of those government agencies which work to secure our borders, including from criminal terrorists and biosecurity threats. Australia's border management agencies oversee the movement of millions of people and millions of tonnes of freight and cargo via sea and air ports and international mail delivery facilities each year.</para>
<para>Overall, the committee found that the integrity functions of Australia's border agencies and the relevant oversight agencies are generally responsive to the ever-changing risk environment in which they work. However, in addition to issues relating to the jurisdiction of ACLEI, the committee found that improvements could be made, including by developing an overarching strategy to target the types of serious crime and corruption experienced in the unique environment of Australia's border agencies. Greater coordination of efforts, including intelligence sharing and the development of site-specific integrity plans, would serve to make their work stronger and more effective.</para>
<para>The committee also reviews the operation of the aviation and maritime security card system. One way to strengthen the way these cards operate would be by creating a central register of cardholders. As mentioned, as part of this inquiry a delegation of the committee travelled to New Zealand and Vanuatu to understand the integrity frameworks of our partners in addressing the very important issue of transnational crime and corruption. As the delegation chair, I would once again like to extend my thanks to the governments of Vanuatu and New Zealand for their openness in our discussions and for our ongoing partnerships in tackling these very serious issues, specifically in the Pacific region.</para>
<para>Overall, Labor senators and members of the committee support the recommendations of the inquiry. However, we would like to put on the record a number of matters that warrant particular emphasis. Most significantly this inquiry has further highlighted the urgent need for a broad based, independent and powerful national integrity commission to tackle corruption. At present the jurisdiction of ACLEI is too narrow to have any chance of investigating and rooting out corruption at Australia's borders. ACLEI provided this committee with a number of extraordinary examples of jurisdictional issues preventing it from conducting investigations into extremely serious allegations of corruption. For example, an allegation that an agricultural officer was facilitating drug importation and terrorism financing was deemed not to be within its jurisdiction, as was an allegation of the acceptance of bribes to clear consignments by an agricultural officer.</para>
<para>The patchy nature of ACLEI's jurisdiction is having far-reaching implications for Australia's border arrangements. Corruption at Australia's borders is a national security risk. The announcement by the Prime Minister and the Attorney-General that the government would expand ACLEI's jurisdiction to include the entirety of the Department of Agriculture, Water and the Environment was made some two years ago. Since then the government has shown no urgency to follow through on its commitment. The government continues to allow an intolerable risk to Australia's border security, and therefore to Australia's biosecurity and national security, to remain unchecked.</para>
<para>Last month the government finally released an exposure draft of a bill to establish the Commonwealth Integrity Commission. The proposed model includes two divisions. One of those divisions, the public sector division, would be responsible for investigating politicians and most Commonwealth public servants. The powers of the public sector division would be significantly weaker than those of ACLEI, and it would operate entirely in secret. It would not be able to self-initiate investigations into possible corruption and, unlike ACLEI, it would not even be able to make findings of corruption. The other division would be ACLEI, which would continue to operate as it currently operates but with the entirety of the DAWE.</para>
<para>This model has been widely criticised by legal and anticorruption experts. Several senior legal figures have even suggested that, because the public sector division could not hold public hearings and would be subject to numerous other legislated constraints, the government's model is designed to cover up corruption, not expose it. Corruption erodes public trust in governments and institutions, costs the taxpayer money and can threaten the health, safety and security of all Australians. The proposed Commonwealth Integrity Commission appears to fall well short of what is needed.</para>
<para>Labor members would also like to record their concern about the conduct and quality of ACLEI's investigation into allegations of corruption involving the Department of Home Affairs and Crown casino, known as Operation Angove. I'm very disappointed that government members would not support these concerns about Operation Angove in the substantial committee report, and I'll tell you why. Over the course of this inquiry, Labor members of the committee asked detailed questions about Operation Angove. Those questions were prompted in large part by the poor quality of the integrity commission's public <inline font-style="italic">Investigation report 08/2020</inline>. The allegations investigated by Operation Angove were incredibly serious. They related to possible corruption by Home Affairs staff in relation to the provision of Australian visas for Crown VIPs, possible corruption by Australian Border Force staff in relation to the clearing of those VIPs at the Australian border and possible corruption by an individual ABF staff member who was employed by a VIP junket operator. Those matters were referred to the former Integrity Commissioner, Mr Michael Griffin AM, by the Attorney-General following an explosive report by the <inline font-style="italic">60 Minutes</inline> program and a series of articles in <inline font-style="italic">The Sydney Morning Herald</inline>. That report was based in part on comments made by a former Crown employee turned whistleblower.</para>
<para>After a 12-month investigation by ACLEI, the current Integrity Commissioner concluded that there was no evidence of corrupt conduct by Home Affairs or the ABF. However, over the course of this inquiry, it became clear that ACLEI's investigation of those three corruption issues was deficient in numerous respects. For example, ACLEI did not interview a single employee or former employee of Crown; ACLEI conducted only one formal interview over the course of Operation Angove; ACLEI did not even attempt to contact the former Crown employee who spoke to <inline font-style="italic">60 M</inline><inline font-style="italic">inutes </inline>in relation to the provision of Australian visas for Crown VIPs; and ACLEI did not even attempt to contact any of the officials who were directly responsible for processing visa applications for Crown VIPs. ACLEI did not even follow up when ABF officers ignored requests for information, and the Integrity Commissioner's report does not even refer to the fact that the Crown junket operator who employed the serving ABF officer as an extraordinarily well-paid personal assistant was suspected of committing a range of serious criminal offences.</para>
<para>The Integrity Commissioner's conclusion that there was no corrupt conduct by Home Affairs or ABF staff appears to have been based principally on a desktop review of visa processing notes and other documentation or records, which, according to the commissioner's own report, were seriously deficient in a number of respects. Accordingly, Labor members are not satisfied that the Operation Angove investigation was sufficiently robust. Be assured we do not make these comments lightly. Investigations by ACLEI or by any investigative body necessarily require individuals to make difficult judgements on the basis of a complicated array of laws, facts and circumstances. However, following a careful review of <inline font-style="italic">I</inline><inline font-style="italic">nvestigation report</inline><inline font-style="italic">08/2020</inline> and the commissioner's detailed responses to our questions, we believe that our concerns are warranted. This committee has a duty to monitor and review the Integrity Commissioner's performance and raise concerns when, in our view, the commissioner's performance has fallen short.</para>
<para>It's important to acknowledge, though, that the current commissioner assumed the role part way through the Operation Angove investigation. It is not necessary for us to apportion responsibility for the deficiencies in ACLEI's investigation between the current and the former commissioner, nor are we in a position to do so. Our comments should in no way be interpreted as a criticism of individual investigators. Nor are Labor members concerned about the performance of ACLEI more generally. ACLEI has done and continues to do very important work to a commendably high standard. Our comments are confined to one particular investigation and report.</para>
<para>Finally, noting that the committee is not authorised to reconsider the Integrity Commissioner's decisions or recommendations, we would also like to make it clear that we are in no way suggesting that the Integrity Commissioner's conclusion—that there was no corrupt conduct—was wrong. What we are suggesting is that the process that led the commissioner to reach that conclusion was deficient. Corruption is a serious issue, and, the general findings of this report notwithstanding, Labor members believe that the government can and must do more to stamp out corruption.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present two reports of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade: <inline font-style="italic">Criminality, corruption and impunity: should Australia join the global Magnitsky movement?</inline> and <inline font-style="italic">Inquiry into the implication of the COVID-19 pandemic for Australia's foreign affairs, defence and trade</inline>. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the reports.</para></quote>
<para>I first wish to make some comments on the inquiry into the implications of the COVID-19 pandemic for Australia's foreign affairs, defence and trade policies. It's my duty as the Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade to present the committee's report. COVID-19, as everyone knows, has been one of the most significant threats to global human health since the pandemic of 1918. In addition to the number of cases and deaths directly attributable to the environment, the pandemic will have a wide range of implications for global health and health systems.</para>
<para>But the committee inquiry concluded that the strategic lessons from COVID-19 are not predominantly about health. One of the key findings of the committee was that the behaviour of nation states in response to COVID-19 has called into question some assumptions about the extent of adherence to the global rules based order by nations when they are facing a crisis or they're under stress. These assumptions have underpinned many aspects of Australia's foreign affairs, defence and trade policy in recent decades.</para>
<para>Australia also has found that COVID-19 has exposed structural vulnerabilities in some of our critical national systems. Those are the systems that enable us to function as a secure, prosperous First World nation. Many of these vulnerabilities are caused by supply chains that rely on just-in-time supply from the global market. In some cases this is exacerbated by supply coming in part or in whole from companies that are subject to extra judicial or coercive direction from some foreign governments. Any decrease in the support for the norms of the rules based order negatively affects the collaboration and conflict resolution between nation states as well as the efficacy of commercial relationships between companies throughout the supply chains. So a key lesson from COVID-19, given the behaviour of nation states, given the importance of supply chains, is that returning to business as usual is not an option if Australia is to be resilient, remaining secure and prosperous in the face of future crises.</para>
<para>The strategic update of 2020 makes it clear that another zoonotic pandemic like COVID-19 is only one of the potential crises facing Australia and our region that would disrupt business as usual. Unexpected or sustained disruption due to grey zone, coercive or military actions are likely to substantially degrade, if not disable, one or more of Australia's critical national systems. Critical national systems are things like our health system, our transport system, our defence system, communications, finance—all the things that help us operate as a First World nation.</para>
<para>Australia must identify the supply chains that underpin these critical national systems and work with industry to reduce, if not eliminate, the vulnerabilities in those supply chains so that we increase our resilience. This will require changes to the Commonwealth's procurement rules to specifically recognise the value for money that is inherent by partnering with those industries that create or expand sovereign capabilities to provide the priority enablers for those critical national systems. It will also require more whole-of-government strategic assessments, investments and diplomatic efforts to increase our resilience through trusted and transparent partnerships with like-minded nations.</para>
<para>Australia, like much of the Indo-Pacific region, has benefited from the global rules based order, which has underpinned the increase in security and prosperity in recent decades. Poor outcomes, though, from some of the key multilateral institutions have caused the decrease in engagement by some nations, and there is evidence of some authoritarian nation states seeking to influence the global rules and standards away from the transparent, plural and democratic values that have informed global norms in recent decades. Therefore, it is clearly in Australia's interest to work with like-minded nations to ensure that reforms to key multilateral institutions are effective but also consistent with the democratic values and the rule of law.</para>
<para>COVID-19 has seen Australia respond effectively, including with novel approaches to governance with things such as the national cabinet and partnerships with industry that placed strategic, timely outcomes over rigid adherence to established process. Therefore, responding to the lessons of COVID-19 that have been identified in this report will require a similar commitment to whole-of-government, outcomes focused leadership and timely, funded implementation of novel solutions which will challenge the status quo.</para>
<para>Before concluding my remarks, I would like to note that there are some human rights implications, which I believe Senator Sheldon will speak to, that affected our mariners, who are part our of transport system—whether they be on foreign ships—and security implications in the small number of Australian flagged ships. I will leave Senator Sheldon to talk through some of those implications.</para>
<para>Finally, I would like to thank people who submitted to the committee. I'd like to thank the committee secretariat for their work throughout a year that's been disrupted by the pandemic in making sure that the inquiry could still continue, that evidence could be gained. I would particularly like to thank Stephen Sherlock for his work in drafting the report, and for working with me and the committee on the recommendations. I commend this report to the Senate.</para>
<para>Given the time remaining, I seek leave to incorporate the statement on the other report from the inquiry of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, conducted by the Human Rights Subcommittee: <inline font-style="italic">Criminality, corruption and impunity: should Australia join the Global Magnitsky movement?</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The statement read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Targeted Sanctions inquiry</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Report of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic">s inquiry into the use of targeted sanctions to address human rights abuse</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">HON SENATOR DAVID FAWCETT</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">CHAIR, JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, DEFENCE AND TRADE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">CANBERRA 8 December 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr President, it is my pleasure as the Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade to present the Committee's report, led by the Human Rights Sub-Committee for the inquiry into the use of targeted sanctions to address human rights abuse.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australians are proud global citizens. We are committed to our democracy, and the importance of upholding human rights, both within Australia and abroad. Through my long involvement with the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, I have watched an increase in community awareness and engagement with Human Rights matters. This is reflected in our government's contribution to international efforts to uphold human rights, through international treaties, our own diplomatic missions, our support for aid and development programs and collaboration with our allies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There has also been a growing awareness that country- or sector-wide sanctions often impact innocent parties disproportionately, and a new way to instigate consequences for unacceptable behaviour is required. It has long been the case that kleptocrats and other perpetrators of serious human rights abuse and corruption have transferred assets to enjoy in Western countries with safe, stable democracies and secure financial systems, such as Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While it would be preferable for the perpetrators of human rights abuse and corruption to face penalties in their home countries, and reparations made to victims, this is often not what happens.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A number of jurisdictions have recognised this problem. Inspired by the compelling experience of Mr Sergei Magnitsky, and advocacy for justice on the global stage by Mr Bill Browder, the efforts of international human rights experts and frontline organisations have focused on advocating for targeted sanctions regimes with the effect of introducing tangible consequences for perpetrators and beneficiaries of serious human rights abuse and corruption.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Human Rights Sub-committee has heard evidence of Australians, and their families, being threatened, and instances of human rights abusers investing the proceeds of their crimes in Australia, gaining access to Australian education and healthcare systems. This is simply unacceptable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have heard that in other countries, targeted sanctions legislation has allowed governments to tackle this issue. Travel bans and seizing assets has prevented perpetrators from enjoying, with impunity, the proceeds of their crimes, and most likely deterred other would-be perpetrators from attempting to do the same.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Implementation of this report's recommendations will give Australia the option to impose travel bans and freeze assets. Working in concert with other countries, we will close the gap of opportunity for perpetrators, and ensure there are consequences in cases where they were otherwise lacking.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee has recommended the enactment of a standalone, Magnitsky-style targeted sanctions Act, during the 46th Parliament. Members agreed that taking swift and decisive action will allow Australia to not only play our part in the Global Magnitsky movement, but to take the lead in developing a best practice targeted sanctions regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This inquiry was conducted throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. The challenges presented by stay-at-home orders and ongoing health concerns did not deter witnesses or the Sub-committee. The level of commitment to this inquiry, despite those challenges, clearly demonstrated the significance of the issues under consideration, and determination of all involved to see matters addressed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This inquiry received evidence from a diverse range of sources, including thoughtful and informed contributions from concerned Australian citizens, Australian diaspora groups, human rights advocacy groups, international parliamentary colleagues, and internationally renowned human rights legal practitioners. This diversity of perspectives greatly strengthened the Committee's appreciation of the subject matter.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I thank the Chair, Hon Kevin Andrews MP and members of the Human Rights Sub-committee for their full and collaborative engagement, their thoughtful consideration of the issues and contributions throughout the inquiry. I also thank the staff of the Committee Secretariat for their diligent work to support the inquiry and report. I particularly want to thank Inquiry Secretary, Sonya Fladun.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is my hope that the implementation of this report's recommendations will send a strong and clear signal to perpetrators of human rights abuse and corruption about the values of Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Implementation of the report's recommendations will play a significant role in reducing the incentives for engaging in human rights abuse and corruption. I also hope that this report is received as a message of solidarity by Australia's allies, and of support to victims of human rights abuse and corruption everywhere.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr President, I commend the report to the Senate.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to take note of the report of the inquiry into the implications of the COVID-19 pandemic for Australia's foreign affairs, defence and trade. As a member of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, I was pleased to see the broader strategic implications of COVID for our defence, security, trade and diplomacy taken up by this inquiry. I want to draw to senators' attention one key aspect of the report. I speak to the humanitarian and economic crisis in our shipping industry, brought on by the failure of the federal government and some state governments to coordinate ship crew changes in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic.</para>
<para>Many in this chamber will be aware of the plight of over 400,000 seafarers around the world who, due to border and quarantine restrictions, have been trapped aboard their ships. Many of these crews have been at sea for over a year. By this Christmas, some will not have been able to travel home to their families in 18 or 20 months. The physical and mental health strain on these seafarers is immense. There have been suicides and serious mental health episodes. These ships have been described by Human Rights Watch and other human rights organisations as 'floating prisons'.</para>
<para>Let's bear in mind that Australia, like many countries, is a signatory to an International Labour Organization convention that limits time on board without leave to a maximum of 11 months, and that most crews would ideally get leave after nine months. These are human beings bearing the brunt of the pandemic so that vital goods can continue to be traded around the world. The Australian Maritime Safety Authority is required to act on behalf of seafarers when their time aboard breaches the 11-month limit. They recently raised this limit to 14 months so that ships can be accepted at Australian ports. In the words of Carl Schou, who is the Singapore based CEO of Wilhelmsen Ship Management, Australia has taken the most stringent stance on crews overdue for change, and this is setting a good international example, but this alone does not solve the underlying problem.</para>
<para>The shipping and ports industry have joined with unions like the International Transport Workers Federation to alert governments, including our own, to the humanitarian and economic consequences of not making arrangements between countries and states to facilitate crew changes. The CEO of Ports Australia, the Hon. Mike Gallacher, warned the joint standing committee in July that not enough was being done to address the inevitable flow-on effects of this crisis. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… if you have a vessel pull alongside and the crew walk off that vessel, then it's going to be very difficult to move that vessel away from the wharf, which therefore causes difficulties with regard to the export or import supply chain … It wouldn't take very long … if we had a number of these vessels falling into this situation, whereby ports could simply come to a grinding halt.</para></quote>
<para>This industry must deal with the different quarantine and crew change arrangements for every country. For crews travelling in Australian waters, the challenges of quarantine and border restrictions have been compounded by each state border closure having its own additional set of rules. While there has been an effort by the Australian federal and state governments to coordinate interstate trucking throughout this year, our federal government has not been so effective, along with the states, in having a national strategy to coordinate to get shipping crews safely across borders so they can be relieved. Relief crews have often been forced to quarantine twice, adding additional weeks to their already long service times. Seafarers have waited weeks or months to be repatriated to their home countries. Meanwhile, the shipping of key commodities to our export markets has been put at risk, significantly delayed and in some cases halted altogether.</para>
<para>It is with growing alarm that I report that current trade disputes with China have escalated to the extent that this crew change crisis is at a new level. The International Transport Workers Federation reports that there are now between 50 and 80 ships with Australian coal on board languishing at anchor off Chinese ports. Some of these ships have been at anchor for over five months after loading in Australia. Many have had seafarers on board for up to 15 months already.</para>
<para>One such ship is the <inline font-style="italic">Jag Anand</inline>, an Indian flagged ship carrying coal from Australia to Jingtang in northern China. This ship arrived on 13 June this year and still has not unloaded its cargo. That is five months waiting, and there is no indication of when the ship will be allowed to berth. China is also enforcing a law that non-Chinese nationals may not disembark onto Chinese soil, meaning that, even if the ship can berth, the seafarers will remain trapped aboard. Of the 23 seafarers aboard the <inline font-style="italic">Jag Anand</inline>, 15 have already been on board for at least 16 months. Three of these are about to hit 20 months of service on board, trapped upon the ship.</para>
<para>This pandemic has made all of us much more aware of the sacrifices that essential workers are making every day. Essential workers have kept our supermarket shelves supplied and stocked; ensured care and hygiene in our hospitals and aged-care homes; and kept our public transport, logistics and food delivery networks running. Our seafarers should not be the forgotten essential service workers across the world. They've kept trade in goods and bulk commodities flowing throughout the pandemic. Australia is one of the countries most dependent on shipping. Over 95 per cent of our export trade is maritime trade. Our mining, farm and other exports live and die by this trade. It is time for Australia to heed the calls of the International Transport Workers Federation and many others and to show national leadership.</para>
<para>Importantly, this report is a bipartisan report. It is to the credit of the chair and the deputy chair that this report has been delivered in the fashion it has. The report recommends that the Prime Minister lead deliberations by the national cabinet process to produce a national framework that will ensure COVID-19 related measures imposed by states and territories do not prevent the timely changeover of international maritime crews. Further, the report also recommends that the national cabinet design that framework so that states and territories remain compliant with national obligations in the event of future crises that require responses falling under the authority of subnational governments, or states—crises like the one unfolding at ports along the eastern coast of China.</para>
<para>I commend this report to the Senate. I'm grateful to the members of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade for the recognition of the crew change crisis and for their work over the past months to identify and explore the impacts of COVID-19 on our security, defence, industry, diplomacy and vital trade and supply lines. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to take note of the report of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, <inline font-style="italic">Criminality, corruption and impunity: should Australia join the Global Magnitsky movement?</inline> The Greens welcome this report and really welcome the multipartisan support that the report has. We are very pleased, the report having been presented, to know that it's got support right across the parliament.</para>
<para>We believe that universal human rights are fundamental and must be respected and protected in all countries and for all people. That means we want to see greater international respect for and protection of human rights. As well as governments, we want to see non-government entities, including individuals and corporations, respecting human rights and being accountable for human rights violations. People who are responsible for human rights crimes need to face the consequences of their actions. Magnitsky legislation, as is discussed in this report, would enable us to bar human rights abusers from visiting Australia or from having financial interests in Australia, including, for example, safe haven bank accounts in which they can keep their wealth that has often been gained by corrupt means.</para>
<para>In talking to this report tonight I want to note that we are hopeful the government will act urgently to provide exposure drafts to develop and then provide exposure draft legislation that can implement the key recommendations from this report. I'm a member of the committee now. I wasn't during the process of this report being developed, but I have been engaged in following it through its development. From here, the Greens will be working to make sure that any Magnitsky legislation is robustly drafted and has real teeth. We need to get the detail right so that it can't be misused and, in particular, so that there is independence and objectivity in determining who is caught up under this legislation, but we need to act urgently.</para>
<para>We need to act urgently for two reasons. The first, of course, is that the sooner it is implemented the sooner it will, hopefully, discourage some of the more egregious attacks on human rights that are occurring globally, including extrajudicial killings, torture, arrests and disappearances of people who express dissent to authoritarian governments. Tragically, we know that these types of attacks are occurring across the globe far too often and extensively in multiple regimes across the world. Just in the last couple of weeks I have spoken in this place about human rights violations in West Papua, India, China, Hong Kong, Cambodia, the Philippines, Bangladesh, Palestine, Colombia and Ethiopia and expressed concerns about due process in Samoa and Sri Lanka. The second reason we need to act urgently is that with other jurisdictions having enacted Magnitsky legislation, including the US, Canada and the UK, there is a significant concern that unless Australia acts we will become the safe haven for human rights abusers, because other countries have restricted access by these people to their shores.</para>
<para>In conclusion, the Greens believe that a Magnitsky act would provide a really powerful tool to address human rights abuses and that we should be urgently working to be putting such legislation in place here in Australia.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to associate myself with the remarks of Senator Fawcett and Senator Rice on the report <inline font-style="italic">Criminality, corruption and impunity: should Australia join the Global Magnitsky movement?</inline>from the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade.</para>
<para>A few years ago I saw Bill Browder, the employer of Sergei Magnitsky, being interviewed on Australian television. In that interview he outlined what had happened to Sergei Magnitsky. Effectively, he was employed by Bill Browder in Moscow and uncovered the embezzlement of hundreds of millions of dollars by the police force there. I won't go through the complicated financial settings of that company, but Sergei Magnitsky was detained by the police—the same people who had done the embezzling—and was tortured to death in jail. He was never charged. Obviously, this is a terrible and egregious violation of anyone's rights.</para>
<para>What then happened was that Bill Browder would not rest until Magnitsky legislation had been enacted around the globe. He went firstly to the United States, where former senator and presidential candidate John McCain was very instrumental in helping pass the first lot of Magnitsky legislation, and then the Global Magnitsky Act was passed. The UK has it, as Senator Rice has said, and Canada has it. The European parliament, just the other night, also approved Magnitsky legislation, and other jurisdictions in Europe have Magnitsky legislation. I think it's very important for Australia to have it. I don't think Australians want to give succour or any sense of security to people who have engaged in gross human rights violations or corruption. We don't want those people to be able to use our rule of law and our system to invest safely their ill-gotten gains. I again thank you, Senator Rice and Senator Fawcett.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kitching, you'll be in continuation if you wish to continue. Pursuant to the order for rearrangement of business earlier today, we will now move to government business.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Adani Group</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Tabling</title>
            <page.no>83</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to table a dossier on the Adani Group's environmental and social record, prepared by Adani Watch under the auspices of the Bob Brown Foundation, and I believe this has been checked off by the whips process.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the dossier.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>83</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to go back to talk to report No. 483 of Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick, we've passed 7.20 pm, so that report is actually on the—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that. I'm seeking leave.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You will be able to speak to that at a future time.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm seeking leave.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Improved Home Care Payment Administration No. 1) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <a href="r6501" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Improved Home Care Payment Administration No. 1) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>83</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While it's Senator Keneally on the list, I will be speaking. Labor will be supporting the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Improved Home Care Payment Administration No. 1) Bill 2020. The purpose of the bill is to change the payment of home-care subsidy to approved providers from being paid in advance to being paid in arrears. The shadow minister first spoke on this legislation in the other place back in March this year. Although Labor supports this bill, we do have concerns we wish to put on the record. To see any impact to service providers will be unacceptable. To see any impact to the services older Australians receive will be unacceptable. To see any upward impact on home-care fees and charges to older Australians will be unacceptable.</para>
<para>The change from advance to arrears payments was due to commence in June 2020. There is an increase in financial risk for some smaller service providers who do not have adequate cash flow to deal with the changes. Those home-care providers currently losing money will face significant difficulties changing payment arrangements. Some service providers said that, as a result of cash-flow pressures arising from changes, they may be reluctant to take on new consumers during the transition phase. Service providers are concerned that, if the payment arrangements increase administrative costs, then costs would be passed on too.</para>
<para>The Liberal government is renowned for piecemeal reform. It is almost four years since the government introduced its Increasing Choice in Home Care reforms. Almost four years on and the question is: what has been achieved for Australians choosing to receive aged-care services in their home? These reforms have done nothing to address growing waiting lists. There are still more than 100,000 older Australians waiting for their approved home-care package. Over the past two years there have consistently been more than 100,000 older Australians waiting for the care they so desperately need. This is a national shame. Sadly, more than 30,000 older Australians over three years died waiting for their approved home-care package. Over 32,000 Australians entered residential aged-care prematurely over the past two years because they could not access approved home-care packages. Wait times have blown out, but older Australians waiting for their high-level package are waiting almost three years to get the care that they have been approved for. The median waiting time for older Australians going into residential aged care has grown under the Liberals and Nationals from just over a month to a five-month wait.</para>
<para>The Productivity Commission's report on government services released this year revealed older Australians waiting for high-level home-care packages are waiting almost three years for approved care. The report revealed that older Australians are waiting longer to enter residential aged care. The government has made improvements to the transparency of home-care fees; however, home-care recipients are still raising concerns about the rising cost of administrative and daily care.</para>
<para>Then there is the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety's interim report, handed down over a year ago. The report, titled <inline font-style="italic">Neglect</inline>, put forward a recommendation that required urgent action to address home care. The government's response was woefully inadequate. More than 100,000 older Australians were waiting for their home-care package, and the Morrison government's response was 10,000 home-care packages. In the budget, the government announced 23,000 home-care packages, but only 2,000 are level 4, the highest level of care. The actual number waiting for their approved level 4 package is 15,873. This is not acceptable. How can any Australian trust the Morrison government when it comes to aged care?</para>
<para>The aged-care system under this government is broken. We know that the Prime Minister when he was Treasurer cut $1.7 billion from the aged-care budget. This has had an impact across residential aged care. These cuts have had a significant impact. Funding has only been announced when the Morrison government has been under political pressure. The question is: why didn't the Morrison government put funding into the aged-care system before COVID-19? The interesting thing is that the amount of funding the Prime Minister cut from the aged-care budget almost matches the funding that he had to put back in because of the deadly COVID-19 outbreaks.</para>
<para>Let's have a look at how a lack of funding has impacted older Australians, their families and carers. We already know about the $1.7 billion cut from the aged-care budget. I've already mentioned the 100,000 older Australians waiting in the never-ending queue for a package. There has been inaction on hundreds of recommendations from more than a dozen reviews, reports and inquiries. Complaints about aged care doubled to almost 8,000 in just one year. The Morrison government has failed to fully implement even one aged-care recommendation from a landmark report to stop elder abuse released in 2017. The Morrison government delivered just 38 emergency food packages to older Australians isolating because of COVID-19. On top of all of this, there is the failed Minister for Aged Care and Senior Australians. He has lost the confidence of the Australian people and the parliament. We know the Morrison government did not have a plan for COVID-19, and this has been stated in the royal commission's special report into COVID-19. We know the Morrison government was not prepared for COVID-19 in aged care. Tragically, almost 700 older Australians died in residential aged care across Australia. Despite the early warnings, the Morrison government didn't do enough. There was difficulty for aged-care workers to access PPE, inadequate infection control training, no surge workforce strategy and no idea of how many aged-care workers were working across multiple sites, and reports were not made public quickly enough.</para>
<para>The Labor Party has an eight-step plan. It's clear, though, that the Morrison government has no plan for aged care. The Leader of the Australian Labor Party outlined eight steps the Morrison government could take now to address the issues in aged care. These include (1) minimum staffing levels in residential aged care; (2) reduce the home-care package waiting list so more people can stay in their homes for longer; (3) ensure transparency and accountability of funding to support high-quality care; (4) independent measurement and public reporting, as recommended by the royal commission this week; (5) ensure every residential aged-care facility has adequate personal protective equipment; (6) better training for staff, including on infection control; (7) a better surge workforce strategy; and (8) provide additional resources so that the aged-care royal commission can inquire specifically into COVID-19 across the sector while not impacting or delaying the handing down of the final report.</para>
<para>We know that Australians are angry about this. They are upset. We know they don't trust the Morrison government or the current minister for aged care, Senator Colbeck. They don't trust the Morrison government to act on the royal commission's final report. Labor will continue to hold the Morrison government to account, not only here in the parliament but also publicly. Older Australians, their families and their carers deserve better.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to contribute to the debate on the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Improved Home Care Payment Administration No. 1) Bill 2020, which introduces the first phase of changes to the way home-care subsidy payments are made to home-care providers. This bill changes the payment of home-care subsidies to providers from being made in advance to being made in arrears, and it's part of a package approach here. It takes a first step in addressing issues around the $750 million in unspent funds currently being held by home-care providers. Unspent funds are problematic because they are used by providers as part of their working capital to generate interest or held in trust by a third party. This phase of changes is set to commence from February 2021.</para>
<para>Our understanding is that the majority of providers won't need to make changes to their payment systems to accommodate these changes. The government has stated that home-care providers who have concerns about the impact of these changes on their financial viability will be eligible for transition support funding and business advisory supports. The Australian Greens will be following this very closely to ensure that providers who are financially vulnerable and operate in thin markets get the support they need to adjust to these changes. We are particularly concerned about those providers in thin markets. Obviously, that is rural, regional and remote providers. We're particularly concerned to make sure that they aren't significantly impacted by these changes.</para>
<para>We do support this approach because, as I said earlier, there are concerns about the large amount of money that is being held in advance payments by providers. We don't want to see providers failing because of poor transition processes. Those that have poor processes may be affected by this and will need to improve their processes, but we don't want to see providers unduly affected by these measures, despite the fact that we do support the basic idea of moving to a different form of payment.</para>
<para>We'll also be watching closely to ensure that changes from both phases—phase 1 and the next phase—do not adversely impact the outcomes for older people and their families. Of course that's absolutely critical. By changing the way that providers receive home-care subsidies, this bill will introduce accountability and transparency to home-care funding—something that's desperately needed. In exactly the same way, we need transparency and accountability improved for residential care as well. This is critical in ensuring that the aged-care system better services and supports the needs of older Australians and that Australians know how the money we are investing in home care and residential care is being spent to support older Australians.</para>
<para>It would be remiss of me not to point out the fact that we still need additional home-care packages. There's absolutely no doubt that the waiting list is still far too long. People have to wait far too long to get the right level of care that they need. Today I'm calling on the government to act immediately to address this issue in home care. As recommended by counsel assisting the royal commission, we need to clear the home-care package waiting list by December next year. Older Australians who need support at home should have universal access based on need, not based on capped places or funding. It is critical that we address these issues to ensure that older Australians can access the care they need when they need it, where they need it and where they want it. If they want to stay at home and receive care at home, they need to be able to access the level of care they need, not go onto a lower package and wait until they can access a higher level of care.</para>
<para>Having said that, the Greens do support this bill. We will, as I articulated, be watching very carefully to ensure that those providers that are financially vulnerable, particularly those in thin market areas, are not adversely affected by these changes and that, most particularly, older Australians get a better deal out of this process. They cannot be worse off. We expect to see them in a much better position. We will be supporting this bill, but we'll be watching the transition process very carefully.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank colleagues for their contributions on the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Improved Home Care Payment Administration No. 1) Bill 2020. This bill amends the way that home-care providers are paid the government subsidy, to address stakeholder concerns regarding unspent funds and to align home-care arrangements with other government programs, such as the National Disability Insurance Scheme. This bill will amend the legislation such that an approved provider of home care will not receive payment in advance but will be paid the monthly subsidy for a home-care recipient on lodgement of a claim with Services Australia after the end of each month.</para>
<para>The government has introduced a second bill, which will amend the legislation such that home-care providers will only be paid subsidy for services rendered to a care recipient during a month, with Services Australia retaining the unspent subsidy for which a care recipient is eligible in each month. This unspent subsidy will be available for a provider to drawdown on behalf of a care recipient as services are provided in future. Again, I thank members for their contribution to the bill. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>85</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I shall call the minister to move the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">(Quorum formed)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>86</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="r6594" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
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        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>86</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a replacement explanatory memorandum relating to the Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020. It's a bill that arises out of the call-out of the 3,000 Australian Defence Force personnel during the Black Summer bushfires. The ADF reviewed the event post this call-out, sought what lessons there were to be learnt and worked out where things could have been done better. The result is this legislation. It is to the credit of Defence that it has reviewed the contribution to the 2019-20 bushfire effort in this way and has proposed these measures as a result. The bill represents a modest set of changes that improve the process of calling out the ADF Reserves, which Labor will support.</para>
<para>I want to add my voice to thank the ADF personnel who were engaged in the bushfires. During my visits to both the Adelaide Hills, the Cudlee Creek fire, and Kangaroo Island, people were most appreciative of their presence.</para>
<para>Let's be clear. Mr Morrison cannot blame the absence of this legislation for his catastrophic failure of leadership during the 2019-20 black summer bushfires, because that summer wasn't without warning. Scientists have been telling us for years that climate change increases the frequency and severity of extreme weather events and natural disasters. Unfortunately, their predictions are true. When I was minister for climate change I told this place, on 26 November 2009:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we are also likely to see an increase in very extreme fire weather days. That is one of the effects of climate change that was documented again by the Bushfire CRC, the Bureau of Meteorology and the CSIRO in 2007, when they said that very extreme fire weather days now occur on average once every two to 11 years at most sites, by 2020 they may occur twice as often and by 2050 they may occur four to five times as often. And this is science that is two years old.</para></quote>
<para>That's what I said in 2009.</para>
<para>In government we funded the climate change adaptation program, a $126 million program at that point, which was designed to help Australians better understand and manage the risks as a consequence of climate change, including extreme weather events and bushfires. But the Morrison government didn't want to understand, because then it would have had to have acted. In 2019 the Bushfire and Natural Hazards Cooperative Research Centre published a 'severe' bushfire outlook for last summer, and that was ignored by the Morrison government too. Immediately after the federal election last year, in May 2019, retired fire chiefs from around Australia warned that the 2019-20 summer would be particularly dangerous. They sought to meet with the Morrison government, and the government refused. On 22 November 2019 the Leader of the Opposition wrote to the PM and asked him to convene the Council of Australian Governments in order to discuss the impending bushfire season and the severity that was being presented. The Morrison government did not listen to that request either. Nor did it act upon it.</para>
<para>You see, warnings could have been listened to and action could have been taken. Action could have been taken by the government in the lead up to the 2019-20 bushfire season. It had promised an emergency relief fund—$200 million every year—which was ready to provide funding that could have been used to reduce risk, but not a cent was delivered. The National Aerial Firefighting Centre was asking for more funding back in September 2019, but nothing was delivered. With this bill the Morrison government wants people to believe that the main problem with last summer's bushfires was that defence reservists couldn't be called out fast enough. But you know the much bigger problem is the refusal of Mr Morrison to listen and his refusal to act despite warning after warning after warning. His derelict response then was: 'I don't hold a hose, mate.' He cannot now point to this bill and say, 'Because I didn't have this last summer, I wasn't able to act.' Mr Morrison's failure to take responsibility and his failure to lead have nothing to do with the absence of this legislation at that time. The fact is that when Australia most needed national leadership Mr Morrison was absent. Even today, entering another summer bushfire season, Mr Morrison still hasn't delivered a cent from this $4 billion Disaster Resilience and Recovery Fund and still has not acquired a national aerial firefighting fleet. Last week, as bushfires burned, he was holed up in the Lodge with his official photographer doing daggy-dad quarantine photo ops and posing in board shorts and spinning on his new exercise bike. Mr Morrison spins while Australia burns.</para>
<para>For decades the ADF has supported Australians in their time of greatest need and has done so magnificently. When states and territories have asked for assistance the Australian Defence Force has been there, providing confidence and relief. In the case of the summer bushfires this assistance was being provided before 4 January 2020, when the formal call-out occurred. Instead of summoning the courage to stare down the climate change denialists in his own party to end the climate wars, to act on the climate change that Australians can see, feel and smell, Mr Morrison is trying to hide behind the courage of the ADF. You see, as valiant as they are, our defence forces cannot solve this problem alone. Adapting to a changing climate and avoiding the worst of climate change—averting the worst of climate change—is not the Defence Force's job. It's the leader of the country's job. It's the Prime Minister's job. What Australia needs from Mr Morrison is a recognition that our climate is changing and bushfire risk is increasing. Australians need him to deliver on bushfire preparedness. They need him to deliver on resources like aerial bombers to fight fires. Australians need Mr Morrison to take action to avoid the worst impacts of unchecked climate change.</para>
<para>A key measure in this bill is to align the immunities that are held by the ADF with the immunities held by civil emergency response agencies in moments of crisis. When it was first introduced, concerns were raised about these provisions. Following inquiry by the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee and a request by our shadow defence minister, amendments have been made to the explanatory memorandum. As a consequence, there is now a firm statement that all references in the bill's provisions to assistance in relation to a natural disaster or other emergency relate only to Defence assistance to the civil community and thus, as a consequence, does not authorise the use force or other coercive powers. There is also a confirmation the proposed immunity provisions apply only to individual Defence members and not to the Commonwealth, so there is still an avenue for remedy should a member of the public suffer loss or damage as a result of assistance rendered by Defence. It is also explicit that immunity is not automatic for both foreign and domestic forces. Given that, we do recognise the government's efforts to address the concerns raised during the course of the examination of this bill by parliament. However, no legislation will make up for the lack of leadership from a Prime Minister who is interested only in announcements and photo ops rather than the leadership needed to deliver on bushfire preparedness for Australians.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I commence my contribution to this discussion, I want to just briefly shout out and pay tribute to my fabulous and diligent policy adviser, Andrea Pizzie, to whom I owe a lot for a lot of the research work that went into the Greens position on this. I shall endeavour not to mangle the notes she has given me in my contribution to this bill's discussion.</para>
<para>The Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020—very much contrary to its name—does nothing to enhance Defence's capacity to respond to natural disasters and other emergencies. Beyond the provisions around superannuation, the bill serves to reduce oversight of call-out processes and grants the ADF personnel, and indeed foreign defence forces personnel and foreign police, criminal and civil liability immunities. It is important that the ADF has the ability to provide assistance to civil emergency response capabilities in large-scale natural disaster responses. These circumstances have and will continue to occur, notwithstanding the passage of this legislation.</para>
<para>Defence Force assistance to the civil community, DFACC, will continue to stipulate the role of the ADF when providing assistance in domestic natural disasters. We note evidence given by the Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements by officials of the ADF state that the DFACC arrangements were sufficiently flexible and effective during Operation Bushfire Assist and therefore question elements of this bill, which state otherwise.</para>
<para>The Greens express significant concern about the provisions of the bill which relate to immunities, the constitutional sources of power and the processes around calling out reserve members and, indeed, for overall human rights implications. We do not accept the characterisation made in the course of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee inquiry into this legislation that the concerns raised by constitutional, legal and policy experts are ephemeral to the substance of this legislation. As demonstrated by the expert evidence given to the committee, these issues are, in fact, central to this legislation.</para>
<para>The Greens do not support the passage of this bill. We do not believe that the bill is sufficiently justified. The risks to ADF members articulated by constitutional and civil liberties stakeholders and experts during the course of the inquiry into this legislation are significant and are unmitigated by the evidence given to the committee during the course of the inquiry. I note that the minister has circulated a replacement explanatory memorandum which attempts to address some of the issues brought up during the inquiry. However, I note, as did many others during the hearing and in their submissions, that ultimately the changes that need to be made should be made in the form of amending the legislation itself, because ultimately legal decisions made in relation to key aspects of this bill will come down to the letter of the law. We do, however, note the superannuation related benefits outlined in schedule 3, and we agree that it is necessary and important to change these sections to ensure that reservists are appropriately compensated for their service.</para>
<para>Let me go to the substantive issues that we have with the bill. The bill underwent a very quick inquiry process through the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, with an extraordinarily small window of opportunity to explore the deeply complex issues that exist in this space. I would like to commend the many community members, the submitters and those who gave evidence to the inquiry for their contributions to this conversation. I would also like to put on the record that this inquiry process left more unanswered questions in relation to the issues brought up.</para>
<para>Let us first go to the issue of immunities offered by the bill. Contrary to the evidence given by departmental officials during the hearing, we do not agree that the granting of both criminal and civil immunities to ADF personnel, foreign defence personnel and foreign police contained within this bill appropriately balances the rights of civilians to legal remedy for neglect and damaging behaviour. It is our position that the Department of Defence was not able to sufficiently address the concerns of the considerable number of submitters who contested the provision of broad immunities. We do not support the extension of any immunities to foreign forces and police. We note the main committee report outlines a number of submissions which recommend against including this provision, and we agree with their view. Further, there is a significant lack of clarity contained within this bill in relation to what legal remedies are available to civilians in circumstances where ADF and foreign personnel have acted inconsistently with their obligations to provide assistance. This matter requires further consideration and clarification to ensure that the right to access the justice system is well understood and reflected in the legislation.</para>
<para>We must also look at the constitutionality of the immunity provisions contained in this legislation. We are very concerned that the issues brought up in evidence to the committee by constitutional law expert Professor Anne Twomey linked her substantial concerns with the constitutionality of this legislation to the immunity provisions themselves. In her submission, she stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This anomaly will be aggravated by proposed s 123AA of the Defence Act. It will provide immunity to all members of the Defence Force, both regulars and reserves, when acting in the performance of their duties if the duties are in respect of the provision of assistance to prepare for or respond to a natural disaster or other emergency. But this raises the question of when such matters are within the member's duties, which goes back to the question of whether there is constitutional power to deal with such matters.</para></quote>
<para>In her evidence to the committee Professor Twomey elaborates on this point, stating:</para>
<quote><para class="block">But the problem here is that the immunity is tied to the word 'duties' in the legislation, and these duties would not formally exist if they're not supported adequately by the constitutional powers. So I think in that respect the immunity is actually probably in many cases just not effective.</para></quote>
<para>The evidence given is that the constitutional ambiguities that surround that and the source of power that Defence relies on to determine the duties of the ADF personnel are not settled constitutional matters and directly interact with the proposed provisions within this bill. We are concerned about the significant implications that this complicated legal matter would have for civilians and ADF personnel who may find themselves not protected and the subject of legal matters and actions. More broadly, we are concerned that this complicates an already messy area of the law. It makes the problem worse.</para>
<para>We must now turn to proportionality and the issues of good faith. We in the Greens are concerned that the granting of immunity for criminal liability unacceptably provides protections for ADF personnel and foreign personnel beyond those granted to all state and territory emergency responders. We are of the view that the ADF personnel would be undertaking fundamentally civilian tasks in the circumstances that this bill concerns itself with, and we do not think that it is necessary or appropriate to water down the rule of law. Further, we note that immunity provisions granted to state and territory emergency responders do not include immunity from civil and criminal liability in the majority of cases. Whilst we agree that the ADF personnel should be appropriately protected in order to carry out their duties, we do not see that these protections should be over and above those granted to first responders and state based emergency personnel. This was also put to us in the clearest of terms during the course of the inquiry.</para>
<para>In relation to the scope of 'natural disaster and other emergency' offered in the bill, I would like to take the opportunity to point out that the proposed section 123AA(2) provides that the minister may in writing direct the ADF to provide assistance in relation to 'a natural disaster or other emergency'. In our view, the term 'other emergency' is deliberately undefined and left to unacceptably broad interpretation. We note that the foreign affairs, defence and trade main committee report alludes to concerns made in a number of submissions, and we agree that there need to be a greater definition and an explanation of what circumstances 'other emergency' could be understood as.</para>
<para>In relation to the issue of the non-use of force, we are deeply concerned that the bill does not prescribe the non-use of force in the legislation. Despite evidence from Defence during the inquiry that indicates that this bill does not permit the use of force by Defence personnel when assisting in natural disasters and other emergencies, there are significant and justifiable concerns from other submitters to the inquiry and in the community more broadly that will remain unanswered should this legislation not explicitly rule out the use of force. As submitted by Professor Twomey, once again:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… if you wish to confine the legislation in a way that makes it clear that the type of actions and duties relating to civil aid to the community are not to involve coercive action—which indeed is clear in DACC—then you could well say so in the legislation if you so chose.</para></quote>
<para>We will be giving the Senate the opportunity to so choose via one of our amendments later in the debate. Further, we are concerned by the position that Defence have taken when questioned on whether they will or will not prescribe the non-use of force, particularly in an answer given on notice, which I believe I do not have enough time to go into in detail.</para>
<para>Professor Twomey and other submitters made it very clear—and I think this needs to be treated with the utmost seriousness, as I would have expected it to be by those so-called conservatives in this place whose political tradition once harked back to a deep reverence for the maintenance and clarity of constitutional issues—that the head of power under which DACC activities are managed by the executive is not a settled issue in any form or sense of it—and neither, by the way, is what exactly is meant by 'good faith', which is a broader conundrum facing this legislature and which we seem unable to confront. The Commonwealth has no settled definition of what is meant by good faith and actions taken therein.</para>
<para>I think I will end by doing two things. I will foreshadow that we will move a number of amendments in the committee stage of the legislation that deal with the various human rights definitions and other issues outlined in the bill, as well as giving the Senate the opportunity to split the legislation so that we might consider the superannuation element separately from the other questions contained within the legislation. But I will end with the ever caustic and incredibly intellectually compelling words of Professor Anne Twomey in relation to the central contention of the bill, which is that it is needed—that the bill is needed to enable the fast call-out of reserve Defence Force personnel because of the unwieldiness of the Federal Executive Council. She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If the Commonwealth Government has not yet worked out a means of instantly contacting all members of the Federal Executive Council to inquire of their immediate availability for a meeting, then it is an indictment on its management. Getting a person to sit down and ring each of them in turn is, frankly, absurd. It is hardly an excuse for changing the legislation. Rather, it should be a reason for changing communication methods. In any case, to state the obvious, if the situation is so urgent that there is no time to go through the system to organise a meeting of the Federal Executive Council, the Minister could be legitimately satisfied that there are other—</para></quote>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm just going to make a short contribution on this bill because I know we have a lot of legislation to get through tonight. I indicate at the outset that Labor does support the Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020. We recognise that it will improve processes that the government needs to undertake in order to call out reserves to assist in a natural disaster situation.</para>
<para>I want to begin by thanking the ADF personnel who assisted so greatly in the Black Summer bushfires last year and those who have done so in previous natural disasters as well. Last year during the fires I had the privilege of visiting the Richmond air base to the west of Sydney to thank Air Force personnel for the efforts that they were putting in. I was joined on that occasion by the deputy Labor leader and shadow defence minister, Richard Marles; and the local federal MP, Susan Templeman, the member for Macquarie. On the same day we also visited some Army reserves who were clearing trees that had fallen down across roadways through the Blue Mountains, so that life could in some ways get back to normal for those affected by the bushfires. We thanked the Air Force and Army personnel for their efforts. For some of those people, it was their job to do what they were doing there, but many others, especially the reserves, of course, had given up other jobs in order to come and help their fellow Australians. So all of our nation owes all of our ADF personnel a debt of gratitude for the work that they undertook as part of fighting the Black Summer bushfires.</para>
<para>As I said, Labor do support this legislation, but we shouldn't kid ourselves that this is going to prevent future bushfires or failures similar to those we saw from this Prime Minister and this government in last year's bushfires. It is well recognised right around the country, and, indeed, around the world, that this Prime Minister and this government comprehensively failed to prepare for last year's bushfires. They failed in their response to the bushfires and they have, in the course of this year, continued to fail in the recovery from these bushfires. So, as much as the government might like to say that improving the processes by which the reserves can be called out will make all the difference—and I have no doubt that it will assist in terms of fighting future bushfires—we shouldn't pretend that that is the only thing needed to keep Australians safe from the sorts of disasters that we saw last year.</para>
<para>We know very well that the Prime Minister failed to prepare. He failed to even have meetings with people who just wanted to warn him about what was coming and what should be done to avoid it, and he failed to take the various steps that were needed to make sure that Australians were kept safe—and we saw the consequences of those failures. Tragically, we're actually seeing that from this government again. You really would think that, after what happened last year, after what Australians went through last year with those bushfires, the government would have learned its lesson and would be taking every step possible to make sure that we avoid similar disasters and the loss of life, loss of property, loss of fauna and loss of species that we saw in last year's bushfires.</para>
<para>We know very well, from advice that has been given to this government by the Bureau of Meteorology repeatedly this year, that we face this year another terrible disaster situation—probably not so much in the form of bushfires, although there are serious bushfire risks in some parts of the country. We know that, due to La Nina weather conditions, the north of our country, particularly North Queensland, faces more cyclones, and more intense cyclones, that it normally does. Cyclones are to some extent a way of life in summers in northern Australia, whether it be North Queensland, the Northern Territory or Western Australia. But, when you have advice consistently coming from the Bureau of Meteorology, along with other scientific and weather experts, that this year is going to be worse, you really would think that you would do everything possible to keep Australians safe and minimise the damage that is coming our way. But that is not what this government is doing. Just as they did last year, they are ignoring the warnings and failing to take the steps that are needed to keep Australians safe.</para>
<para>I'll just give a couple of examples. Probably the best example is this government's failure to spend a single cent from the $4 billion Emergency Response Fund that it announced in last year's budget, 18 months ago. It set aside $4 billion for a disaster response and recovery fund that could be spent on repairing damage, on paying grants to people who suffered loss and, importantly, on projects and all sorts of prevention measures that would limit the damage from future disasters. Even though this government has had the funds available now for nearly a year, it has not spent a cent. Think of the number of cyclone shelters that could have been built over the last 12 months. Think of the number of evacuation centres for bushfire regions that could have been built. Think of the improvements to communications technology that could have been achieved if the government had just been prepared to spend anything from this fund, which the opposition voted with the government to create. Instead, whether it's due to penny pinching, negligence or a lack of care, this government has not spent anything from that fund, and consequently we don't have in place the preventive measures that could have been delivered.</para>
<para>If we do see those cyclones hit this year or if we do see bushfires hit in places like south-western Western Australia or western New South Wales, as is forecast, we will have to ask what could have been avoided if the government had just used those funds that were available. It's not as if the government needs to go and find new money. This money is in the budget. It was announced. It was provided for. But yet again the Prime Minister doesn't actually care once the announcement is made. He's got his headlines. He's got his photos with Army reservists and with fire chiefs and fire volunteers. He doesn't care about the delivery, and, as a result, Australians are yet again being put at risk by this Prime Minister.</para>
<para>The other example I'll give is this government's failure to implement the recommendation of its own bushfires royal commission to create a national aerial firefighting fleet. Again, last year we saw what happened when the government didn't take steps to make sure that we had the water-bombing aircraft that we needed to put out fires and prevent new fires starting. We saw what happened when the government had to scramble around and try and bring in planes from overseas to try to put out fires and found that those planes were unavailable because they were still needed in other countries. Now we have a recommendation from the government's own bushfires royal commission saying that we should create our own national sovereign aerial firefighting fleet. What does this government do? 'Noted'. It leaves it with the states, even though the royal commission has said that is not an adequate measure to make sure that we are well prepared for firefighting.</para>
<para>Of course, the elephant in the room is that this government continues to do nothing about climate change. Whatever anyone thinks about climate change, it is coming. You have every possible scientific expert, including the Bureau of Meteorology—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Hanson interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With respect, Senator Hanson, if I'm going to listen to anyone about climate change, I think I'll listen to the Bureau of Meteorology rather than you. Stick to what you know. We should not ignore the advice of the Bureau of Meteorology and the CSIRO, who actually know a few things about this. What they tell us consistently is that climate change is real, it is happening and it is going to lead to more natural disasters in the future. Senator Hanson, if you were really a senator for Queensland, you would actually care about that. You should care about the people in our state who are going to be facing more cyclones in the future, more floods in the future and more bushfires in the future. We should all take steps to fix that.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, your comments need to come through the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Madam Acting Deputy President. In summary, what we need from the government is more than just announcements. We need more than a headline about the creation of a new emergency response fund. We need more than a photo op for aerial firefighting. We need more than false claims that this government is taking action on climate change. We need real action on all of these things to make sure that Australians are kept safe.</para>
<para>We commend the government on bringing this legislation forward. We will vote for it. We have secured amendments from the government, particularly to the explanatory memorandum, to address a number of the issues that the Greens and other civil society groups have raised and to make sure that these powers can't be abused in the future. We cannot kid ourselves into thinking that this is all that needs to be done. There are practical steps that this government could be taking right now, using funds that it has made available for this express purpose, to keep Australians safe. I can tell you that, if we see these cyclones hit and if we see more bushfires hit, we're going to be reeling out every single time that we warned the government that they could have done something about this. They've really got to get moving. We're running out of time. We're already seeing bushfires around the country, and cyclones are only weeks away. Time is running out. It's time to do more than make announcements. It's time to actually deliver.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can't let go what Senator Watt just said. He blamed the government for the bushfires that have happened in this country. They have been happening for centuries. He should really have a good look at it. State governments and councils have not allowed for clearing and haven't looked after the fuel that's lying on the floor. You couldn't do anything about it.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Steele-John</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam Acting Deputy President, I have a point of order on relevance. This is not relevant to the legislation we're discussing at all.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Steele John, that's not a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I think I'm very much in order because we're talking about defence personnel coming from other countries to help us fight bushfires in this country. That's what it's all about—the problems that we have in Australia. Senator Watt stood up and made accusations about this. He blamed the government. It is not the government's fault. If you have arsonists setting bushfires and if you have local and state governments not clearing the fuel from the floor, of course we're going to have bushfires. We always have. It's not just about climate change. We know that for a fact.</para>
<para>What's important to this Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020 is the firefighters and the people who help us. Australia is a land of extremes. It seems that we are never far from a natural emergency, like the bushfires we experienced late last year into early this year.<inline font-style="italic"> (Quorum formed)</inline></para>
<para>For all the people who have come in, thank you very much. The Greens intend to call these constantly to shut down time. I suggest that, instead of sitting in your chambers, you sit here, because they intend to do this constantly to shut down time in this parliament so that you cannot deal with the legislation that is here before this parliament. This is how bloody pathetic they are.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Hanson, would you like to resume your speech?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will, gladly. The bushfire on Fraser Island is the latest such emergency that has hit this nation. It shows how quickly an emergency can escalate. It has now destroyed approximately 82,500 hectares of the national park, and about half the island has been burned.</para>
<para>I think it's important that the Australian people know what this legislation is doing. Their concern is about foreign police, foreign military and everyone coming to the country and not being held accountable. That, it's not. The bill introduces some streamlining to enable the faster activation of our Army reservists in times of emergency, including civil emergencies, as well as for disaster preparedness, recovery and response. For our ADF reservists, it provides clarity in regard to their call-out responsibilities and remuneration. It also ensures immunity from civil and criminal liability for ADF personnel, reservists, authorised Commonwealth employees and military personnel and police from other nations while they participate in dealing with an emergency or a recovery. While there has been some concern raised that visiting forces should not receive immunity from both civil and criminal liability, the Centre for Military Security and Law has assured these provisions are in line with those of various state and territory jurisdictions. The Law Council of Australia also noted the safeguard that the immunity only covered acts done in good faith in accordance with specific written direction from the Minister for Defence. The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee recently expressed the view that foreign defence personal assisting during natural disasters should not have less protection than members of the ADF if they are called upon to respond in the same way. This seems fair enough.</para>
<para>As everyone knows, I am a patriotic Australian. I am a very strong opponent of any measures that place Australia's sovereignty and safety at risk. Our sovereignty must not be compromised. The immunity provided in this bill is clear in that it applies only to those who, in good-faith performance of their duties, provide assistance before, during and after an emergency and only if that assistance is directed by the minister or his or her delegated authority. The bill provides no immunity for any deliberate crime or misconduct, as has been a concern of some Australians. It provides protection only for incidents that occur while performing actual tasks in good faith linked to the disaster response and emergency support initiatives. The immunity being granted to defence personnel includes that they may damage private property in order to preserve life. For example, I understand that they may commandeer a truck or back-burn land in order to protect the greater good. In such situations, accidents happen. The immunity will give our ADF personnel and visiting forces the peace of mind to carry out the work needed to address the emergency. The ADF also noted the example where the task of personnel may lawfully include transporting evacuees from a bushfire zone. The bill would operate to protect individual ADF members, not the Commonwealth, from civil liability in the event an evacuee is injured while being transported. What is also clear is that if defence personnel or foreign forces act in bad faith in any way then they would lose their immunity immediately and would be subject to prosecution under Australian law.</para>
<para>The value of the work done by Australian Defence personnel, along with the input of the foreign forces in these emergency situations, can't be underestimated. In the fires last year and early this year, 3,094 homes, more than 1,000 other structures and 24 million hectares of bushland were destroyed across New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, the ACT, Western Australia and South Australia, which shows how important it is to have humans ready for action when and where needed. About 6½ thousand full-time and more than 2½ thousand part-time ADF personnel were involved in the bushfire efforts, along with 450 personnel from overseas. In Queensland, we may well be calling on the help of such personnel again sooner rather than later. I understand the time frames and I've made my point clear because people have been concerned and ringing my office about this legislation. I made it clear that immunity only goes so far. They will not be covered for everything. It's in the line of duty of helping Australia through the emergencies, so I think is very important we do protect them in certain cases.</para>
<para>Going back to Senator Watt's comments here in the chamber regarding the lack of action from the Prime Minister in reflection of what happened last Christmas, we saw how distressing it was for people who lost their properties across many states. The fact is that we have to accept that—I stated this before—a lot of councils and states have not allowed for back-burning to happen. They have closed up national parks and have not allowed for the proper maintenance on these properties. They have even stopped people from cutting down bushland and trees close to their homes to protect their own home sites. This has been pure negligence from our councils, saying, 'You shouldn't touch bushes and shouldn't protect your own homes.' It's no good laying blame just on one person who was the Prime Minister at the time. This has gone on for a long time. I just feel that, under this legislation, it is important that we protect people coming from other countries to help us in times of disaster because we rely on them. That's what being friends and neighbours in this global world is—we help other countries through their disasters as well.</para>
<para>To blame it on climate change is a load of BS. Climate change has been happening for millions of years. The fact is we are actually now recording temperature changes. You hear in this chamber all the time the term 'on record'. The record is only the last 100 years, and they change that to suit their own agenda. The fact is that climate has been changing due to natural causes, not because of human emissions—that has not been proven. So when you talk about disasters in the nation, they will go on for centuries to come. If you listen to scientists, the earth is warming; glaciers are still growing, not shrinking. People must understand that we have to stop using all this as a political football and speak the truth, because it is concerning people. I hear it all the time from the Greens, with no evidence. They won't debate Malcolm Roberts. They won't put the true science up. It's alright to scaremonger; that happens all the time. This is the house of review on legislation. This is where the truth must be exposed. It's not about scaremongering; it is about telling the truth. If you can't debate and you don't know what the hell you're talking about, don't scaremonger in this country any longer and put fear into people.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to put forward a simple proposition to Australians when they think about our armed forces. We call them defence forces, and the word 'defence' comes to mind. Would you prefer to have your serving personnel in your armed forces geared to going on foreign adventures and fighting foreign wars—as we have essentially done for the last 15 to 20 years very closely joined at the hip to the United States, our allies in the ANZUS treaty, including in the longest-running conflict in our nation's history in Afghanistan, and we've obviously seen some of the complications that have arisen from that in recent times—or would you prefer to have your personnel geared up to help fight the biggest threat to our national security?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Molan</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's either/or, is it?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Molan—interjections.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy to take that interjection from Senator Molan. It's absolutely not a case of either/or; it's a case of where you prioritise the future role for the ADF. Senator Molan is a climate denier. He's of the same ilk as Senator Pauline Hanson and Senator Malcolm Roberts. He's a climate denier, yet he's in government, which, of course, makes him a lot more dangerous. I think he would dispute that proposition—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, resume your seat. Senator Molan?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Molan</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I deny what the senator said. I do not deny climate change.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Are you taking a point of order, Senator Molan? Senator Roberts?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>May I take a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What's your point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That I've been falsely labelled a climate denier; I do not deny climate.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is not a point of order, Senator Roberts. Senator Roberts?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He mislabelled me.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's still not a point of order. Senator Whish-Wilson.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Very spurious points of orders, I may add. It was worth a try—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A bit like some of the quorum calls.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I've clearly touched a raw nerve with these senators tonight, which is always an interesting proposition. Obviously what concerns Senator Molan—through you, Acting Deputy President—is that climate change is the biggest threat to our national security. If you think about threats to livelihoods, threats to property, threats to our economy and threats to our communities—what bigger threat is there than our changing climate, our warming planet and our extreme weather events, be they the horrendous bushfires we've seen that are driven by this climate emergency, be they torrential floods, be they cyclones or be they the loss of our critical habitat, like on the Great Barrier Reef or in the giant kelp forests that the commercial fishing industry and communities in my home state of Tasmania are reliant on? That's the biggest threat to our national security. Don't just take my word for it; there are plenty of people and experts out there saying the same thing. I know you won't take my word for it, Senator Molan; I understand that. I don't think you'd take any scientists' word on climate change at its face value either, because you are a climate denier, Senator Molan, regardless of what you say. Perhaps a climate sceptic may be a more politically correct term to you.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through you, Acting Deputy President—a climate sceptic, a climate denier and a denier of science. I thought previous Liberal Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull actually delivered a fantastic rebuttal to <inline font-style="italic">The Australian</inline> on <inline font-style="italic">Q</inline><inline font-style="italic">&</inline><inline font-style="italic">A</inline> a few weeks ago. He said: 'If you deny climate, it's like denying physics. Did you fly here in an aeroplane? Do you understand physics?' We're talking about the same fundamental concepts, yet these people have turned climate into a matter of identity, as Mr Turnbull so rightly pointed out. They've turned it into a matter of ideology and identity, but it's actually about physics and science. It really is appalling that in this day and age we're having these political debates when the community and the rest of the world is moving on and recognising the fact that our planet is warming and that that is having an impact on us and putting us at risk.</para>
<para>To get back to the debate, climate change, global warming, is the biggest threat to our national security. I personally believe that the defence forces have a huge role to play in this country and in our region, whether it's providing aid, assistance or expertise on so many different levels. Going back three or four years, I initiated a Senate inquiry. The Greens didn't chair it, but we sat in on it through Defence, Foreign Affairs and Trade, and we actually looked at this. We looked at the preparedness of the Australian Defence Force for climate change and for a climate emergency. We took evidence from experts all around the country, who talked about the threat climate change poses. At a minimum, you got out of these people—and some of these people Senator Molan would know very well—that they all recognised climate change as a threat multiplier. Some went a lot further than that and were prepared to say it actually is the biggest threat to our national security. So I support a more active use of the defence forces, and I've got to say, like a lot of Australians I felt very proud seeing our Navy evacuating Australians off beaches in January this year. While I was down the coast at Bicheno, we had ash falling on our heads as we were walking along the beach on New Year's Day. We were also worried about fires on the east coast of Tasmania, and everybody was glued to what was going on just here on the South Coast of New South Wales, and all up and down the coast in the months preceding. The fact that we had to use our armed forces to evacuate Australian civilians off beaches was quite extraordinary. I recognise the role the armed forces have played over the climate emergency we've seen this summer, and it will only get worse. It is not going to get better. If the Bureau of Meteorology is telling us that under current business-as-usual scenarios we are on a three to four degree warming trajectory by the end of this century, we're in really serious strife. Sadly, Senator Molan, you and I probably won't be around when the worst effects of this are being felt by our children and our grandchildren, but we're going to leave them that legacy.</para>
<para>The Greens support a much more active role for the Australian defence forces in terms of realigning their training, their capabilities, their procurement and a whole range of things, like potentially looking at remote area firefighting like we see with the New Zealand defence forces. We want to see the Australian government, as we debated in here last week, buy our own water bomber fleet. I did dare suggest that perhaps the Air Force, seeing as we've got very good pilots, might consider flying those aircraft as well if we were going to buy them, but it could just as easily be given to state emergency services. But either way, I think this is a discussion we should be having at a national level. We call our defence forces 'defence' forces for a reason, but it seems that they are 'offence' forces. They spend all their time—and all their procurement is based around—fighting in foreign theatres of war, endless wars, for what strategic political objective I don't know, when we clearly have a clear and present danger here in Australia and in our region, and a need to employ our service personnel to protect Australians and to protect our region.</para>
<para>Saying that, we've got to be extremely careful that we get the balance right in how we legislate that and what kinds of powers we give the government to call out our defence forces. As has been outlined here tonight by my colleague Senator Steele-John, who's participated in this inquiry and has raised a number of significant issues that the Greens want to see amended, if we don't get that balance right then we risk unintended consequences in the future. And we certainly risk undermining public confidence in the rollout of our defence forces in the future.</para>
<para>I wanted to put that on the table. I think this is a really important discussion. I commend the government for their increased rollout of the defence forces over summer. I was very proud of what they achieved, Senator Reynolds. However, we don't believe you've got the balance right here. But this is a conversation we need to continue to have. We're going into committee stage, so we will talk in more detail on our amendments then.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to very sincerely thank all senators who've contributed to the debate on this important bill, the Defence Legislation Amendment (Enhancement of Defence Force Response to Emergencies) Bill 2020, both here in the chamber this evening and during the committee phase. I commend this bill to the chamber and I seek leave to have my comments incorporated in the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">I would like to thank all Senators who contributed to the debate on this important Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Substance of Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill makes changes to Defence legislation that will enhance the Commonwealth's ability to prepare for, and respond to, natural disasters and emergencies of national scale.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 amends the <inline font-style="italic">Defence Act 1903 </inline>to streamline the process by which advice is provided to the Governor-General regarding a call out of the Reserves, including for the purposes of responding to natural disasters or emergencies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Streamlining this process allows the Minister for Defence, after consultation with the Prime Minister, to advise the Governor-General on the need for a call out of the Reserves, in all circumstances and not just for reasons of urgency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes provide the Chief of the Defence Force the ability to determine the nature and period of Reserve service provided under a Reserve call out order.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will deliver the ADF the flexibility required to integrate the Reservist effort in a manner that best supports the broader Defence response and individual members' circumstances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes will improve consistency in the treatment of Reserve members who are providing assistance during a disaster or emergency, regardless of whether they have volunteered their service or have been called out to serve.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes will also enable more flexible service options for Reservists while allowing alignment with the nature and requirements of a specific Reserve call out order.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Defence Act 1903</inline> to provide immunities to those Defence personnel supporting disaster preparedness, recovery and response efforts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The immunity will apply where the Minister is satisfied that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a. the nature or scale of the natural disaster or other emergency warrants the provision of ADF capabilities and makes it necessary, for the benefit of the nation, for the Commonwealth, through use of the ADF's special capabilities or available resources, to provide the assistance; and/or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">b. the assistance is necessary for the protection of Commonwealth agencies, Commonwealth personnel or Commonwealth property.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will see our Defence personnel being provided with immunity from civil and criminal liability when they are performing their required emergency response duties in good faith, similar to immunities provided to state and territory emergency services personnel.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 will make amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Military Superannuation and Benefits Act 1991</inline>, the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Defence Force Superannuation Act 2015</inline>, and the<inline font-style="italic"> Australian Defence Force Cover Act 2015.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments will ensure Reserve members who provide continuous full time service under a Reserve call out order will receive commensurate superannuation and related benefits to those Reservists who provide the same service on a voluntary basis.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill originates from Defence's experience in providing assistance to the civil community in response to natural disasters from Operation BUSHFIRE ASSIST 2019-2020.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill accords with the recommendations of the Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Operation BUSHFIRE ASSIST</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The primary responsibility to respond to natural disasters and other emergencies rests with the States and Territories.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Disaster relief is not the ADF's primary role – the ADF is not an auxiliary emergency service.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, the ADF has for many decades provided assistance to State and Territory authorities in their response to major natural disasters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Operation BUSHFIRE ASSIST 2019-2020 was the Australian Defence Force's most significant civil assistance operation in our history.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Over 8,000 ADF personnel served on Operation BUSHFIRE ASSIST 2019-20.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At its peak, 6,500 ADF members provided support as part of emergency relief, response and recovery operations. This included 3,000 Reserve members.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, eight nations provided direct assistance to the ADF.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This included members of the:</para></quote>
<list>New Zealand Defence Force,</list>
<list>the Papua New Guinea Defence Force,</list>
<list>Republic of Fiji Military Forces,</list>
<list>Indonesian National Armed Forces,</list>
<list>United States Air Force,</list>
<list>Singapore Armed Forces,</list>
<list>Japan Self-Defense Force, and</list>
<list>The Royal Canadian Air Force.</list>
<quote><para class="block">On behalf of all Australians, I thank those friends and the military personnel who provided support in our nation's time of need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the conclusion of Operation BUSHFIRE ASSIST, Defence's capabilities were called on to assist the Australian community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To date, over 9,000 personnel have been deployed on Operation COVID-19 ASSIST, with over 3,500 personnel deployed at its peak.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On behalf of the Australian people, I extend my thanks to the men and women of Defence and our friends from other nations who helped Australians in our times of need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Lessons learned</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence reviewed the lessons from the 2019-2020 bushfires and set about putting in place the necessary improvements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These include:</para></quote>
<list>Rewriting the Defence Assistance to the Civil Community Manual and Policy, and</list>
<list>Adjusting the ADF's command and control model.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Royal Commission Recommendations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also implements recommendation 7.3 of the Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Royal Commission recommended that the Government afford appropriate legal protections from civil and criminal liability to ADF members when undertaking activities under an authorisation to prepare for, respond to, and recover from natural disasters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence has undertaken non-legislative activities to address the remaining recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate Committee Inquiry</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee has conducted an inquiry into this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommended that the Bill be passed without delay, with amendments to the Explanatory Memorandum to clarify the intention and operation of the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a. Clarify that the Bill does not alter, expand or otherwise change the Government's existing legal authorities to deploy the ADF;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">b. Clarify that the operative provisions of the Bill, including the proposed immunities, relate to Defence Assistance to the Civil Community tasks and do not authorise the use of force (beyond self-defence);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">c. Provides examples of 'other emergencies' referred to in the immunity provision; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">d. Clarifies that the requirement for a direction from the Minister is intended to provide a check on the proposed immunity and does not grant a new authority to the Minister to direct the deployment of Defence personnel.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I thank the members of the Committee for their comprehensive and diligent work in its inquiry into the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government accepts the Committee's recommendation in full.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Explanatory Memorandum has been amended to clarify the intention and operation of the Bill in line with the Committee's recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Summary</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments in this Bill make three important, practical and fair changes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. provide greater flexibility in implementing a call out of the Reserves,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. enable greater consistency in the treatment of our Reserves</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. and ensure that our Defence personnel have appropriate legal protections when serving our nation in good faith.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>96</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek the guidance of the chair. I've got a number of amendments which I'm looking to move and bring to a vote. Is this the appropriate place to do so? I want to make sure that I don't miss my opportunity.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's appropriate for you to commence with your amendments at this point.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move Greens amendment (1) on sheet 1137:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 3 (line 12), omit "notifiable instrument", substitute "legislative instrument".</para></quote>
<para>Let me state clearly the aim of this amendment. We agree with concerns raised by the Standing Committee on the Scrutiny of Bills and the submission made by Mr Andrew Ray and Ms Charlotte Michalowski that the deployment of armed forces should be a matter of last resort and that the decisions to call them out should be subject to stringent parliamentary oversight—not a radical contention, you would have thought. This amendment seeks to ensure a layer of parliamentary scrutiny by making call-out orders subject to disallowance. While we understand that there are concerns around the timeliness and complexity of the call-out process, we do not accept that efficiency concerns cannot be addressed in other ways. We believe that efficiency concerns can be addressed in other ways, and it is not a reason to move past legitimate scrutiny by elected representatives.</para>
<para>Throughout the inquiry it was made clear that the desire to streamline the call-out process removes important processes of scrutiny in a way that is not only unjustified but also unnecessary. It is our view that a decision to call out reservists is a significant decision, and it should be one that is deliberated and able to be decided on by the parliament via disallowance of an instrument. Indeed, this view and position were put to the committee by a number of experts, and we entirely agree. Therefore, I commend this amendment to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will be opposing this amendment. The bill as introduced would amend section 28 of the Defence Act to make a reserve call-out a notifiable instrument. This has substantially the same effect as the existing provision, which requires reserve call-outs to be published in the <inline font-style="italic">Gazette</inline>. This requires publication of the instrument on the federal register, and that is publicly available. We do not believe in any way that it is appropriate for reserve call-outs to be disallowable, noting the significant level of disruption that that would cause for the ADF's operation, its planning and, indeed, for ADF members who have been called out. There are numerous other mechanisms by which any decision of the government to call out the reserves can be scrutinised by the parliament, and scrutiny of the instrument itself is not necessary, noting that the instrument itself does not determine the law. So for these reasons the government will be opposing this amendment.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment on sheet 1137 be agreed to.</para>
<para>The committee divided. [20:43]</para>
<para>(The Temporary Chair—Senator McLachlan)</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move Australian Greens amendments (1) to (4) on sheet 1141 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 4, page 8 (line 14), before "emergency", insert "prescribed".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 4, page 8 (line 19), before "emergency", insert "prescribed".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 2, item 4, page 8 (line 21), before "emergency", insert "prescribed".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 2, item 4, page 8 (after line 34), after subsection 123AA(3), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3A) The regulations may prescribe:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) a particular emergency event as a prescribed emergency for the purposes of this section; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) a kind of emergency as a prescribed emergency for the purposes of this section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3B) However, regulations made for the purposes of subsection (3A):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) may only prescribe as an emergency or kind of emergency, an event or occurrence that does not require a protected person to use force or other coercive powers against a person; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) must not prescribe protest, dissent, assembly or industrial action as an emergency or kind of emergency.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments deal with one of the most serious aspects of the bill. It is our view and, indeed, that of many submitters that a lack of a definition of what could constitute an 'other emergency' leaves the door wide open for the scope of circumstances for using the powers in this bill basically to be whatever the minister would like to define. It is our intention to quarantine the provisions of this bill to the stated purpose of Defence aid to the civil community by outlining what emergencies cannot be; indeed, to make explicit what does not constitute an emergency a situation for the purposes of this bill.</para>
<para>Throughout the course of the inquiry it was made very clear that the lack of a definition of 'other emergency' was grossly insufficient and left the door far too open in terms of interpretation. These amendments should, I quite honestly believe, be a rather uncontroversial proposition for the chamber to consider. Anybody who takes a cursory glance at this legislation would be worried by the vagaries contained within the relevant section. These amendments tidy that up rather neatly and would make great improvements to the legislation. I therefore commend these amendments to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support these amendments. Clause 123AA provides immunity from civil and criminal liabilities for protected persons who are providing relevant assistance in natural disasters and other emergencies where they are acting in good faith and in the performance of their duties. These amendments would replace the broad term 'other emergency' with 'other prescribed emergency'. This would require regulations to be made in order to rely on the immunity provision in relation to any emergency that was not a natural disaster. The term 'other emergency' used in the bill as introduced takes its ordinary meaning. It is deliberately a broad term. It enables agility to respond to unexpected events. Requiring other emergencies to be prescribed in regulations would require them to have been identified ahead of time, which is clearly impracticable. This would prevent ADF members from receiving appropriate legal protections when they are providing assistance in an emergency—again, very undesirable and not necessary. There are other safeguards already in clause 123AA. Regardless of the nature of any emergency, the immunity would only ever apply in a situation when ADF members and other personnel were acting in good faith in the performance of their duties, and they must be lawful duties. This would not include using force or coercive powers. This provision does not authorise or permit ADF members to use force or coercive powers to quell or dispel protest, dissent, assembly or industrial action. It's for those reasons that the government does not support these amendments.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that amendments (1) to (4) on sheet 1141 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [20:55]<br />(The Temporary Chair—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move Greens amendments on sheets 1143, 1144 and 1148 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Sheet 1143</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 4, page 8 (after line 28), after subsection 123AA(2), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2A) Before making a direction under subsection (2), the Minister must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) if the assistance is proposed to be provided in relation to a State or Territory, or State or Territory authority or agency—notify the State or Territory of the proposed direction and consult with the State or Territory about:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) whether the State or Territory agrees to the proposed provision of assistance; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) the form and manner in which the assistance is proposed to be provided; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) take into account any views of the State or Territory provided under paragraph (a).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sheet 1144</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 4, page 9 (lines 3 to 8), omit all the words from and including "any of the following" to the end of subsection 123AA(4), substitute "an APS employee or other employee of the Commonwealth or a Commonwealth authority or agency".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sheet 1148</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 4, page 9 (after line 21), at the end of section 123AA, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">No use of force permitted</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) A protected person must not use force against persons or things in relation to the provision of assistance mentioned in subsection (1).</para></quote>
<para>These three amendments seek to do three crucial things: first, to ensure that there is appropriate consultation with the states and territories in relation to the call-out of reserve forces; second, to remove the immunities granted to foreign defence forces and foreign police forces in relation to civil and criminal liability; and, finally, to prescribe in the legislation that force and coercive power may not be used against civilians in the context of this legislation. We heard from Defence, the government and the ADF that personnel will not be permitted to use force under the arrangements that this legislation refers to. However, we have been told time and time again that if this is really the case then the legislation needs to explicitly say so. We do not think that it is sufficient merely to have this in the explanatory memorandum and we support the view of the submitters who stated that if it is the government's intention to ensure that use of force is not permitted then they should say so in the legislation. Once again, it's not a particularly radical contention that if the government intends force not to be used then there should be no harm in saying so in the legislation.</para>
<para>Finally, let me just circle back to a comment upon the granting of civil and criminal liability protection to foreign defence forces and foreign police. There have been contributions made to the discussion of this legislation which falsely lead those watching along at home to believe that the extension of civil and criminal liabilities to emergency personnel is the majority position in the states and territories. As we heard in the inquiry, this is not the case. The extension of criminal and civil liabilities is not the norm among the majority of state emergency services personnel in this country, so it is erroneous to suggest that one thing this legislation seeks to do is to offer the same protections that state emergency services personnel receive. It in fact grants protections well in excess of those granted to state emergency services personnel.</para>
<para>But let us leave that aside for a moment and stare blankly and clearly into the face of the reality that this legislation seeks to extend those civil and criminal liabilities to foreign police forces and foreign defence force personnel. That is a departure in extreme from any previous norm and, it must be said, will not be reciprocated, nor is it required to be reciprocated, by any foreign actor that we engage with in relation to our forces or our police forces in their jurisdiction. It exists as a totally new aberration upon the legislative field and is unacceptable in the extreme. It is a source of one of the most stringent streams of concern we have received, and that is why the Greens have put this amendment and its two partners to the chamber this evening.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know the senator has moved a number of amendments together. I would like to make some brief comments on the opposition's position in relation to the amendment on sheet 1144, which I think, from what I can discern, was the subject of the contribution that the senator just made.</para>
<para>Labor opposes the amendment. We acknowledge the presence of foreign forces on Australian soil is, quite rightly, a matter which draws significant public interest and scrutiny, which was in part why Labor asked that this bill be referred to a legislative inquiry—to ensure there were no unintended consequences as a result of the bill's provisions. It's important to note that what is proposed in the bill is neither the automatic grant of immunity to foreign forces nor an automatic approval for their presence on Australian soil. I note that the amended explanatory memorandum states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… any participation by foreign military or police forces in any domestic civil emergency would remain contingent upon the receipt and acceptance of an appropriate offer by the Commonwealth, as is normal practice. As such, the Bill in no way provides for the automatic participation of foreign forces in domestic civil emergencies. Extension of the proposed immunities to foreign forces would likewise not be automatic and be contingent upon the issuing of a direction by the Minister.</para></quote>
<para>There are important limitations with respect to the proposed immunity, including that it would only apply 'in relation to a protected person's actions (or omissions) that are done in good faith in the performance (or purported performance) of their duties'.</para>
<para>I also note that, during the 2019-20 bushfire season, Australia received assistance from the defence forces of New Zealand, Singapore, Japan, Papua New Guinea, Fiji, Indonesia, Canada and the United States. So, whilst international assistance should not be a substitute for appropriate domestic capabilities—and I note that I referred to this in my speech in the second reading debate—the generous offers of assistance from other countries during those bushfires were most welcome. Where Australia has accepted an offer of foreign forces to assist Australian communities in their time of need, it seems appropriate that a mechanism be available to potentially provide immunity in certain circumstances, noting again that the granting of such immunity would not be automatic—that it would be the subject of an issuing of a direction by the minister and that there are important limitations with respect to the scope of the immunity.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not be supporting all three of these amendments. I will turn first of all to the amendment on sheet 1143. Section 123AA already provides immunity from civil and criminal liability for protected persons who are providing relevant assistance in natural disasters and other emergencies where they are acting in good faith and in performance of their duties. The provision is not the source of authority for using the ADF to provide assistance, which remains the executive power of the Commonwealth. It operates only to trigger the immunity. The effect of this particular amendment would be to insert an additional requirement to consult with states and territories before triggering the immunity provision, which is not necessary nor appropriate. This provision—and, in particular, the language for triggering the immunity through the minister's direction—has been very, very carefully drafted to ensure that it is within the constitutional authority of the parliament.</para>
<para>In relation to the amendment on sheet 1144, first of all, I thank the opposition very much for their support for this and I also acknowledge the opposition's thanks and acknowledgement relating to the foreign forces who came to assist us in the bushfires earlier this year. In relation to this, the immunity provision in section 123AA as introduced can be extended to members of foreign military and police forces who are providing the relevant assistance on behalf of the ADF or on behalf of Defence. Contrary to what we've heard in this chamber, there is a longstanding practice of nations providing assistance to each other in times of emergencies and disasters. During the 2019-20 bushfire disaster, eight nations provided military assistance through the ADF—New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Fiji, Indonesia, the United States, Singapore, Japan and Canada—and, as Senator Wong has said, we are deeply grateful for that assistance. Similarly, the ADF has also provided significant disaster relief and humanitarian assistance to many other nations.</para>
<para>The effect of this amendment would be to remove the ability to extend immunities to foreign forces who are providing assistance to our nation. The extension of immunities to foreign military and police forces is appropriate and it is justified, given longstanding practices of nations providing this sort of assistance to one another. It recognises that they are important relationships, and, also, it provides appropriate protection in situations where they are offering assistance and putting themselves in harm's way for Australians and for people in our local communities. The immunity, however, does not apply automatically. It requires a decision by Defence. The provision does not authorise foreign military or police forces to enter Australia or to use force or coercive powers while providing assistance. It's for those reasons that the government will not be supporting these three amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will speak very briefly. Putting aside the usual theatrics that surround the contention that there's been any opposition to or scrutiny of this legislation, it was really disappointing to see so much fuss and fluff made about the creation of an inquiry into this legislation, only to see most of the recommendations made by the experts who gave their time to it thoroughly ignored by the opposition and the government. But let me just pick up this critical point around 'good faith' that has been made in the contributions by the minister and by the opposition and the fact that that offers us a protection in relation to the issues raised in this particular amendment.</para>
<para>I draw your attention to the evidence given by Mr Andrew Ray and Ms Charlotte Michalowski, who explored the issue of good faith further in their evidence to the committee, suggesting that perhaps a higher standard, such as proportionality, may be more appropriate. They outlined in their submission the lack of clarity around what 'good faith' can be interpreted as, stating:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… there are significant concerns regarding the use of the limitation of ‘good faith’ contained in the immunity provision. Good faith has been widely used in immunity provisions, however academic commentators have highlighted that the exact scope of the term is unclear, with few cases having applied the test in relation to immunities. At its widest the immunity may protect anyone who subjectively believes they are acting in good faith. Alternatively, in some cases courts have considered competing policy considerations to weigh up whether an action should fall within a good faith exception. It is unclear which standard would be applied were the application of immunity contained in s 123AA challenged. This leads to the situation where it is unclear when an individual could rely on the immunity, a position that is at odds with the stated justification of the amendment.</para></quote>
<para>So there we have it very clearly from two people who know what they're talking about and have no political vested interest in getting this bill sorted out and done. I think it's worth noting that this is a vagary which is causing the Commonwealth, broadly, many problems. As some of your own members acknowledge, there is a need to define clearly what we mean when we say 'good faith'. Just like the questions around the constitutional head of power that supports many of the activities described in this bill, it would be much better to clarify this issue before leaning on a concept of 'good faith' that is not settled and may prove to be unstable when relied upon.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question before the committee is that Greens amendments on sheets 1143, 1144 and 1148 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [21:16]<br />(The Temporary Chair—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—The Greens oppose schedules 1 and 2 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 3 (line 1) to page 6 (line 5), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, page 7 (line 1) to page 9 (line 21), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>With the conclusion of this committee stage, we've now offered the chamber the opportunity to make clear that such call-out orders will be subject to the scrutiny of the parliament, which was voted down. We've given the chamber the opportunity to prescribe exactly what is meant by 'emergency', something which the major parties in this place have also voted against in the course of this committee stage. We've given the major parties the opportunity to ensure that actions are taken in consultation with the states and territories, and they have voted against that. We've given them the opportunity to remove the provision of immunity to foreign defence forces and to foreign police—something which they have just voted against—along with a clarification of the use of force, which has just been voted against. Every opportunity to improve this bill has been foregone by the major parties in this place. Every concern raised at the committee level has been ignored. So, finally, we give the opportunity for these highly inappropriate sections of the legislation to be separated from the one piece of this bill which does have merit—that is, the sections in relation to superannuation. There is indeed a need to address the discrepancies identified by the legislation—something that we support—and we now seek to separate the bill to enable those two pieces to be considered independently of each other. So I commend that position to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not be supporting either of these amendments, because the measures in this bill will enhance the ability to provide defence assistance to the civil community by doing two things: firstly, by streamlining the process for calling out members of the ADF reserves under sections 28 and 29 of the Defence Act and, secondly, by providing ADF members, other defence personnel and members of foreign forces with similar immunities to state and territory emergency services personnel in certain cases while they are performing duties in good faith to support civil emergency and disaster preparedness, recovery and response. These amendments would take away both of these schedules in the bill. These have been designed to enhance Defence's ability to provide assistance in relation to natural disasters and other emergencies. They would also remove the opportunity to legislate some of the key lessons learned from the 2020-21 bushfires, which would be a significant missed opportunity ahead of the upcoming high-risk weather season. It's for these reasons, amongst many others that we've discussed here tonight, that the government will not be supporting these two amendments.</para>
<para>In closing, I thank the opposition. Senator Wong, I thank you and also Richard Marles and his office for the constructive way in which we've engaged with this to get to this very important legislation.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that schedules 1 and 2 stand as printed.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [21:27]<br />(The Temporary Chair—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J (teller)</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The time allotted for debate has expired, so we will now report progress.</para>
<para>Bill agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported without amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can you record the Australian Greens' opposition to the bill?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I agree to record your objection to that bill.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Excise Levies Legislation Amendment (Sheep and Lamb) Bill 2020, Customs Charges and Levies Legislation Amendment (Sheep and Lamb) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <p>
              <a href="r6567" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Excise Levies Legislation Amendment (Sheep and Lamb) Bill 2020</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6566" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Charges and Levies Legislation Amendment (Sheep and Lamb) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bills be agreed to and the bills be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Investment Reform (Protecting Australia's National Security) Bill 2020, Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Fees Imposition Amendment Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>103</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <p>
              <a href="r6614" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Foreign Investment Reform (Protecting Australia's National Security) Bill 2020</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6612" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Fees Imposition Amendment Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will now deal with the second reading and other remaining stages of the bills. The question is that the second reading amendment on sheet 1163, circulated by the opposition, be agreed to.</para>
<para><inline font-style="italic">Opposition's circulated amendment</inline>—</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">", but the Senate notes the concerns and uncertainty around the implementation of this bill and the Coalition Government's broader failures on foreign investment."</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the second reading amendment on sheet 1157, circulated by the Australian Greens, be agreed to.</para>
<para><inline font-style="italic">Greens' circulated amendment</inline>—</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the definition of a notifiable national security action in the Foreign Investment Reform (Protecting Australia's National Security) Bill 2020 includes infrastructure defined as a critical infrastructure asset under the Security of Critical Infrastructure Act 2018,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) the Department of Home Affairs is undertaking consultation on the Exposure Draft of the Security Legislation Amendment (Critical Infrastructure) Bill 2020, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) in respect of critical electricity assets, the Explanatory Document to the Exposure Draft states, "It is likely that an expanded set of generator assets will be captured, building on the existing approach in the rules.",</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to ensure that the threshold for critical electricity assets established under the Security of Critical Infrastructure Act 2018 is set at a level that does not have a disproportionate impact on renewable energy".</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will now deal with the committee stage amendments circulated on the bill, starting with the amendments circulated by the opposition in respect of the Foreign Investment Reform (Protecting Australia's National Security) Bill 2020. The question now is that the amendments on sheet 1132, circulated by the opposition, be agreed to.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">Opposition</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic">s circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 1), omit "Sections 1 to 3", substitute "Sections 1 to 5".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 3 (after line 5), after clause 3, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 Evaluation of operation of this Act and related legislation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Secretary must conduct an evaluation of the reforms implemented by this Act and the Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Fees Imposition Amendment Act 2020 (the foreign investment reform Acts), including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) legislative instruments made under the Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Act 1975 and the Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Fees Imposition Act 2015 to implement the foreign investment reform Acts; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) administrative changes made to implement the foreign investment reform Acts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The evaluation must start as soon as practicable, and in any event within 1 month, after this section commences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Secretary must give the Treasurer a written report of the evaluation before the end of the period of 12 months beginning on the day this section commences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Without limiting subsection (1), the evaluation and report must consider:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the impact that the foreign investment reform Acts and their implementation have had on foreign investment in Australia and the broader Australian economy; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) whether the right balance is struck between welcoming foreign investment and protecting Australia's national interests.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The Treasurer must cause a copy of the report to be tabled in each House of the Parliament within 15 sitting days of that House after the report is given to the Treasurer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The Secretary must publish a copy of the report on the Department's website by no later than the day on which the report is tabled.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 Delegation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Secretary may, in writing, delegate the Secretary's powers or functions under section 4 to a person engaged under the Public Service Act 1999 who is employed in the Department.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the amendments on sheets 1138 and 1139, in respect of the Foreign Investment Reform (Protecting Australia's National Security) Bill 2020, circulated by the Australian Greens, be agreed to.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">Australian Greens</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 1138</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 3, item 8, page 195 (after line 28), after subsection 130ZY(1), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) Without limiting subsection (1), the report must include statistics on the area, value, tenure and use of land in which there is a foreign interest.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 1139</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 34 (after line 1), after item 80, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">80A After section 63</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">63A Publication of exemption certificate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) For each exemption certificate given under Division 5 of Part 2, or under the regulations, the Treasurer must, as soon as practicable after giving the certificate, publish on a website maintained by the Department:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the exemption certificate; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the reasons the exemption certificate was given, including the matters of which the Treasurer was satisfied before giving the exemption certificate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) For each exemption certificate varied or revoked under section 62, the Treasurer must, as soon as practicable after varying or revoking the certificate, publish on a website maintained by the Department:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the exemption certificate; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the reasons the exemption certificate was varied or revoked, including the matters of which the Treasurer was satisfied before varying or revoking the exemption certificate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Treasurer may redact from each exemption certificate and reasons required to be published under subsections (1) or (2), any information that would be contrary to national security to publicly disclose.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 126, page 48 (after line 3), after section 76A, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">76B Publication of no objection notification</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) For each no objection notification given under sections 74 or 75, the Treasurer must, as soon as practicable after giving the notification, publish on a website maintained by the Department:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the no objection notification; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the reasons the no objection notification was given, including the matters of which the Treasurer was satisfied before giving the no objection notification.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) For each no objection notification varied under sections 74, 76 or 79G or revoked under section 76A, the Treasurer must, as soon as practicable after varying or revoking the notification, publish on a website maintained by the Department:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the no objection notification; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the reasons the no objection notification was varied or revoked, including the matters of which the Treasurer was satisfied before varying or revoking the no objection notification.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Treasurer may redact from each no objection notification and reasons required to be published under subsections (1) or (2), any information that would be contrary to national security to publicly disclose.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 2, item 40, page 150 (line 26) to page 151 (line 10), omit section 101D, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">101D Publication of undertakings</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) If the Treasurer accepts an undertaking in relation to a provision mentioned in subsection 101C(1), the Treasurer must, as soon as practicable after accepting the undertaking, publish on a website maintained by the Department:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the undertaking; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the reasons the undertaking was accepted, including the matters of which the Treasurer was satisfied before accepting the undertaking.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) If the Treasurer varies or withdraws an undertaking in relation to a provision mentioned in subsection 101C(1), the Treasurer must, as soon as practicable after varying or withdrawing the undertaking, publish on a website maintained by the Department:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the undertaking; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the reasons the undertaking was varied or withdrawn, including the matters of which the Treasurer was satisfied before varying or withdrawing the undertaking.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Treasurer may redact from each undertaking and reasons required to be published under subsections (1) or (2), any information that would be contrary to national security to publicly disclose.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) A failure to comply with subsections (1) or (2) in relation to an undertaking does not affect the enforceability of the undertaking under Part 6 of the Regulatory Powers Act, as that Part applies in relation to the provisions of this Act.</para></quote>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the Greens amendments on sheets 1138 and 1139 be agreed to.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will now deal with the amendments circulated by Pauline Hanson's One Nation. The question is that the amendments on sheets 1131, 1165 and 1174, in respect of the Foreign Investment Reform (Protecting Australia's National Security) Bill 2020, circulated by Pauline Hanson's One Nation, be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Pauline Hanson's One Nation's circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Sheet 1131</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 132, page 75 (after line 16), after Division 5, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Division 6—Benefit to Australia test</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">79Z Treasurer must consider the benefit to Australia</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Application of this section</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) This section applies if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Treasurer receives a notice from a person stating that an action under Part 2 is proposed to be taken; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Treasurer is satisfied that an action under Part 2 has been taken.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: Actions taken under Part 2 include significant action, notifiable action, notifiable national security action and reviewable national security action.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Benefit to Australia test</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Treasurer must consider whether the action under subsection (1) meets the benefit to Australia test.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The <inline font-style="italic">benefit to Australia test</inline> is met if the action will, or is likely to, result in one or more of the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the creation of new jobs in Australia or the retention of existing jobs in Australia that would or might otherwise be lost;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the introduction of new technology into Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the introduction of new business expertise into Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) increased export operations (within the meaning of the <inline font-style="italic">Export Control Act 2020</inline>) for Australian exporters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The Treasurer must not give a no objection notification under section 74 or 75 unless, in addition to the requirements in the relevant section, the Treasurer is also satisfied that the action meets the benefit to Australia test.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) If the Treasurer is not satisfied that the action meets the benefit to Australia test, the Treasurer must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) make an order under section 67 or 79D to prohibit the proposed action; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) make an order under section 69 or 79E for the disposal of the interest if the action has been taken.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sheet 1165</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 3, item 8, page 165 (line 18), omit the heading to section 130V, substitute "Disclosure and publication of information in the Register".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 3, item 8, page 166 (after line 5), after subsection 130V(2), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2A) The Registrar must cause to be published, on a website maintained by the Department, all information in the Register in relation to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) interests in agricultural land; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) registrable water interests.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 3, Part 1, page 198 (after line 6), at the end of the Part, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Register of Foreign Ownership of Water or Agricultural Land Act 2015</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">13A Section 17</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the section, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">17 Register to be published on website</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commissioner must publish on a website this register.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sheet 1174</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (at the end of the table), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 207 (after line 25), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 4—Australian water entitlements</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Foreign Acquisitions and Takeovers Act 1975</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Section 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Australian water entitlement</inline>: see subsection 47A(4).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 After section 47</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">47A Meaning of <inline font-style="italic">notifiable action</inline> —Australian water entitlement</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) An action is a <inline font-style="italic">notifiable action </inline>if the conditions in this section are met.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">First condition—kinds of action</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The first condition is that the action is to acquire an interest in an Australian water entitlement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Second condition—action taken by a foreign person</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The second condition is that the action is or is to be taken by a foreign person.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Meaning of Australian water entitlement and related definitions</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) For the purposes of this section, <inline font-style="italic">Australian water entitlement</inline> means any of the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) an irrigation right (within the meaning of the <inline font-style="italic">Water Act 2007</inline>) that relates to a water resource in Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) a right (including an Australian water access entitlement) conferred by or under a law of a State or Territory to do either or both of the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) to hold water from a water resource in Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) to take water from a water resource in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) a contractual right to all or part of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) a right referred to in paragraph (a) or (b); or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) a water allocation; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) a right of a kind specified in the regulations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) However, an <inline font-style="italic">Australian water entitlement</inline> does not include:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) stock and domestic rights; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) riparian rights; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) water allocations; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) a right of a kind specified in the regulations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) In this section:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Australian water access entitlement</inline> means a perpetual or ongoing entitlement, by or under a law of a State or Territory, to exclusive access to a share of the water resources of an area in the State or Territory.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">water allocation</inline> means the specific volume of water allocated to an Australian water access entitlement in a given period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">water resource</inline> means:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) surface water or ground water; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) a watercourse, lake, wetland or aquifer (whether or not it currently has water in it).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An expression used in this definition that is also used in the <inline font-style="italic">Water Act 2007</inline> has the same meaning as in that Act.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [21:39]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Stoker)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>40</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [21:43]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Stoker)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>2</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M (teller)</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>47</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>108</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of these bills be agreed to and that these bills be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Radiocommunications Legislation Amendment (Reform and Modernisation) Bill 2020, Radiocommunications (Receiver Licence Tax) Amendment Bill 2020, Radiocommunications (Transmitter Licence Tax) Amendment Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>108</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <p>
              <a href="r6580" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Radiocommunications Legislation Amendment (Reform and Modernisation) Bill 2020</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6579" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Radiocommunications (Receiver Licence Tax) Amendment Bill 2020</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6578" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Radiocommunications (Transmitter Licence Tax) Amendment Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Explanatory Memorandum</title>
            <page.no>108</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an addendum to the explanatory memorandum relating to the Radio Communications Legislation Amendment (Reform and Modernisation) Bill 2020.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>109</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bills now be read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will now deal with the amendments to the bill circulated by the opposition. The question is that the amendments on sheets 1153 and 1154 in respect of the Foreign Investment Reform (Protecting Australia's National Security) Bill 2020, circulated by the opposition, be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Opposition's circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 1153</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 1, page 4 (line 14), after "national security purposes", insert ", national broadcasting purposes".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 3, item 76, page 43 (after line 16), after subsection (2F), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2G) For the purposes of subsection (2F), national broadcasting is in the public interest.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 3, page 43 (before line 17), before item 77, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">76A After paragraph 130(3 ) ( a)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(aa) must have regard to subsection (2G); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 1154</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 3 (table item 13), omit the table item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 11, page 217 (after line 7), at the end of the Schedule, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 Subparagraph 103(4A ) ( c ) ( i)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "31 December 2006", substitute "30 June 2024".</para></quote>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that opposition amendments on sheets 1153 and 1154, circulated by the opposition, be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [21:52]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Stoker)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Askew, W</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J (teller)</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>110</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the remaining stages of these bills be agreed to and these bills now be passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Civil Aviation (Unmanned Aircraft Levy) Bill 2020, Civil Aviation Amendment (Unmanned Aircraft Levy Collection and Payment) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>110</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" background="" style="">
            <p>
              <a href="r6569" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Civil Aviation (Unmanned Aircraft Levy) Bill 2020</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6570" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Civil Aviation Amendment (Unmanned Aircraft Levy Collection and Payment) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>110</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>110</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of these bills be agreed to and these bills be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 21:56</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>